So You Want To Talk RACE RELATIONS, huh ? OK.

Yesterday on Meet the Press, a bunch of leaders of the Black community spoke out about race relations in America. It has become a topic of conversation after the Zimmerman trial, Obama's recent speech, and the Al Sharpton race hustle rallies (pretending to be civil rights protests). These Black leaders revealed how truly clueless they are on this subject.

All the Black leaders talked about was generalities, and how things could be improved for Blacks. Well, as much as anyone, I'd like to see everyone happy, well-provided-for, and things being peaceful. I am White/Hispanic, and I like all races of people. I had a Black roommate when I was in college, years ago. But we must look at this in it's ENTIRETY, not just what's good for Blacks.

So here's the crux of it, Mr & Ms Black leaders. Until Affirmative Action is abolished 100%, there will be no peace, no harmony, and no happiness. A long as Blacks think it's OK to engage in racial discrimination at the expense of Whites, a discussion about race relations is not even going to begin. Get Affirmative Action off the table and fully disposed of, and then we can all talk. Affirmative Action is banned in 8 states in America. It needs to be banned in all 50 states, and when companies and government agencies put foward AA questionnaires, they need to be punished for doing so, and this needs to be seen as the immoral, racial discrimination that it is. Affirmative Action is INjustice in the extreme. No justice, no peace.

 

Hmm, not sure where I fall on this.

Affirmative Action does actually cause racism. I have seen many whites incredibly angry because they were cut out of something being held for the program.

However, SOMETHING needs to be done to bring the black community up. They lead the crime rates in almost everything, illiteracy, fatherless etc.

I don't think AA is what we need, but we do need something.

 

It would be great if you could discuss the issue of affirmative action in the 21st century with some data behind your comments. I am not convinced that affirmative action I'd love to see one of those questionnaires.

 

When else do you propose we talk about race? I mean the issue is front and center right now, and if we can't talk about an issue that's making the news, we can't talk about it, because once it's out of the news, most people think the issues don't exist at all.

A black guy wanting to improve things for blacks is not much different than a AARP lobbyist talking about how to make things better for retirees. Except of course, that retirees are allowed to speak in their own best interest without being called hucksters, race baiters, and any other name you can think of. Which is why we need the conversation in the first place.

I think we can only have the honest conversation when both sides are coming together without preconditions. You do like the Palestinians "We can have the conversation, AFTER you give us all of Jerusalem." That's not an honest call for conversation, it's a demand to give up everything as a precondition to negotiating a surrender. No one with an IQ above room temperature is going to enter a conversation that way.

What really has to happen is more like what happens in couples therapy -- we need to drop all the masks that we put on to be polite. We need to get real about what the problems are and what solutions are even possible. In my experience, the conversations end before they start because sooner or later, something that's honest but sounds racist comes up. Then the other party pounds them down into mush, which means that the conversation stops. If black kids in hoodies are scary to you, effing SAY IT. If you think that white people are conspiring against black people, SAY IT. We're going backwards fast because we're afraid to say the wrong things and can't address the issues that exist.

I think AA is a fraud, not so much one that was thought up by black people, but one thought up be the rich guys. What seems to happen is that it sets people of different races but similar social class against each other. So the poor white kid loses a scholarship to a poor black kid, or a middle class white drywall hanger loses out to a middle class black drywall hanger. Who wins -- the elitist superstructure that can keep blacks and whites from working together to solve national problems.

 

I'll make suggestion on what that "something" might be. It should be a reversal of the Obama administration's (and the whole Democratic Party, and some Republicans) love of immigration. It's is the height of deceit and hypocrisy for Obama to be talking about creating jobs, when he is killing millions of American jobs, by giving them to foreigners in work visas and being lax on illegal immigration. Millions of Americans unemployed (many of them Blacks, especially young males), while jobs are being handed over to immigrants.

 

1. What kind of data ?
2. You didn't finish your sentence. You're not convinced of WHAT ?
3. To see an affirmative action questionnaire all you need do is apply for most any government job anywhere. Many private employers have them as part of their job applications too.
4. My experience with affirmative action is a lot more than the 21st century. I've been discriminated against for 50 years (1962 - 2012), and have had my whole adult life ruined by it.

 

How in the world do you come in here and ask >> "When else do you propose we talk about race?" You ask a question that I just got through answering in the OP. HERE is that answer again. Please try to keep up.
"Get Affirmative Action off the table and fully disposed of, and then we can all talk."

Sure we need a conversation. I'm just saying until Blacks and White ultra-liberals are willing to stop discriminating against whites with affirmative action, conversation can't begin.

Let's stick to the TOPIC. We're not talking about Palestinians. This is an American problem in which Blacks and White ultra-liberals think they can tell Whites to not discriminate against Blacks, and then go out and rampantly discriminate against Whites. It's like an army saying OK we want you to have peace with us right NOW. while they're firing machine gun bullets at you. No justice, no peace.

I just DID say what the problem is. The first and foremost and primary problem >>> Affirmative Action.

This is the strangest perception of AA I've ever heard. Here's my perception of it. I'm 67 years old, and am now retired. I was in the workforce from 1962 -2013. During those 50 years, I've been denied COUNTLESS jobs, promotions, a graduate school assistantship, and a few other opportunities by power brokers mindlessly preoccupied with the notion of diversity. My whole life has been ruined by people discriminating against me because of race. Even as I go into my retirement years, I'm still reduced from AA, since the size of Social Security payments comes from how much money you made (or didn't make ) in your life.
As for economic class, I was actually helped by affirmative action once, when IT WAS BASED ON ECONOMIC CLASS. That was when I started college and got financial aid based on my household income. That I am cool with. I'm just opposed to the racially discriminating affirmative action, and it turns my stomach every time I hear some fool on TV saying Blacks are disenfranchised economically, when it is Whites who are (by affirmative action). BTW, AA is not the only way Whites are discriminated against. They are also discriminated against by some Black employers who hire only Blacks.

 

How about something like a Race Relations summit that tries to keep the extremists on both sides to a minimum or excluded altogether and actually gets people talking intelligently about the multitude of issues surrounding this subject. Picking just one issue that annoys the non-Blacks doesn't seem like THE precondition to trying to solve the overall problem.

 

How seriously how?

 

That was weird. I must have deleted half of that sentence. I am not convinced that affirmative action is as devastating as you make it out to be.

You believe that affirmative action ruined your life? I think you are overstating a bit. You just might have a complex.

 

How do you think ? By being refused jobs I should have gotten. By being refused an assistantship, when I was in graduate school. That's how.

 

What's there to not believe ? You get refused an assistantship, in graduate school and forced to drop out. There goes 5 years of college down the drain. Then for decades, you're refused jobs, and you wind up working at low wage jobs all your life, with a college degree. Not just me. Hundreds of millions of people.

 

My whole working life of 50 years, has been ruined by affirmative action. Yeah that "just one issue". That's right. Hell no. As long as affirmative action is legal, no talks. No justice, no peace, no talk.

You think you can blatantly discriminate against Whites based on their race, and then calmly sit around talking about race relations ? 50 years of discrimination, and a whole lifetime ruined, and you call this "annoyed" ? Are you nuts ?

 

I can read fine. You just don't get to dictate the agenda or the issues. I think there are enough issues on both sides that you aren't going to solve them all before the conversation. And getting at those issues is the point of the conversation that you don't want to have until we solve all the issues. I'm sure blacks have a few preconditions of their own -- maybe not being followed around like they might commit a crime for one. Talking is the first step to dealing with all of this. You have things backwards.

You aren't even following the argument. I wasn't trying to talk about Israel/Palestine, I'm trying to get through your thickened skull the notion that you cannot dictate that the other party must give up everything as a PRECONDITION to having a conversation about the problems. That's a stupid way to negotiate anything because you've given them no incentive to reach the table. Unless you've got some kind of huge carrot to counteract that, no one is going to have the conversation with you. Do you understand that idea?

On your side. But what problems do African Americans face? Could you even name one? A conversation is not one sided, there are two sides to every argument, and unless we're going to have this out in a complete and honest manner, which includes listening to the other side about what they think is going on, there's not much point. You don't want a conversation, you want surrender.

Did they say that at the time, or did you simply suspect it? I've seen both ways, where a guy gets denied for whiteness, and a clueless white guy who thinks he's great at his job, but loses because a black guy showed him up.

Need based scholarships are not the same thing as AA. And those need based scholarships still exist. I actually got one. I could have gotten one for being left handed too, and one for writing an essay about Ayn Rand and how she's right about everything. I just don't see what that has to do with AA, since AA has nothing to do with paying for college, it's about admissions, and even there, the footprint is reduced from what it used to be.

 

I didn't say I get to dictate anything. I'm just expressing my views. And that is that you can't talk about having good race relations when you support AA (discriminating against people based on their race). This should be common sense.

What I understand is that racial discrimination is both illegal and immoral, and stopping it MUST be a precondition before any talking is to be done. That's my position, and it should be the position of everyone , including Blacks (and many Blacks ARE opposed to it).

Absolutely I want surrender. I want those who support illegal and immoral racial discrimination to surrender, just as I would want a any common criminal to surrender to the police, and stop committing crimes and immoral acts.

What do you think AA questionnaires are for ? And though there are COUNTLESS examples, I'll give you one >> When I was denied an assistantship in graduate school, 23 people applied. 8 Blacks, and 15 non Blacks. All 8 Blacks got one. None of the 15 non-Blacks did. The 8 Blacks were the lowest 8 academically in the class. I was was told I was # 1. When I asked if this was affirmative action, I was told "Yes it was" Why do you ask ? Are you surprised ? Why would you be when AA has been running wild all over the country for 50 years now.

I see no reduced footprint, although at my age, the damage is already done, and can never be repaired. If you don't want or call financial aid preference AA, so be it. No bigee. That's not the thrust of this thread. The TOPIC is don't even whisper about race relations, until you are ready to join the moral 8 states that have already banned it. Period.

 

I do agree that something should be done, and I would also agree that AA isn't the answer. We've had it for several decades. But I think the answers are beyond public policy and law.

 

Do you often get accused of lying by people here?

 

Not really, Do you ?

 

Being turned down for an assistantship ruined your life for 50 years and condemned you to low paying jobs? What a crock.

 

That's the way it turned out - along with lots of AA discrimination all along the way. Just the last 10 years applying for civil service jobs in Tampa is exactly that. I especially remember the one that was to work in a govt nursing home with the old folks providing recreation. After not filing out the AA questionnaire, I never heard back. At 67, I'm closer to those old people's age. I can play 4 musical instruments on a professional level. Used to play in a band, and I know THEIR songs (of the 50's & 60s). Could you just see some of the young black kids they hired "singing" rap "songs" to them.
I also have a lot of artistic skills, and submitted sample drawings with my application. I could have worked with the seniors showing them how to draw and paint. I also speak Spanish fluently, and I know some of those seniors speak ONLY Spanish, or have weak English-speaking skills. I'm also a veteran, and could talk military stuff with some of the old vets. I'm also a lifelong baseball fan, and could watch Rays games on TV and talk baseball with the oldies, including from the 50s days of Micky Mantle, Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Stan Musial, etc.

All no matter. One thing made the difference. My skin wasn't dark enough.

 

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The Economy is BAD.

The current administration, at a time when support for AA and Racial Preferences is rapidly declining, has vastly expanded the Scope, Intensity, Authority, and Funding for Racial Preferences.

There are 26 Separate Racial preference provisions in the ObamaCare bill alone!

64% of Americans are White.

Many non-Whites, particularly American born by generations Hispanics have intermarried with White Families.

Asians are also excluded from AA Racial Preferences.

Some, though admittedly few, Blacks reject the notion of the crutch and bigotry of low-expectations of AA Racial Preferences.

When you add all those together, it is around 76% of America who opposed AA Racial Preferences.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/06/public-preferences-differ-on-top-scotus-cases/

Today, in this economy, a small thing, like losing a work study program position, can mean the difference between completing a degree, and being force into a lifetime of poverty.

When a white male is turned down for a job on a stimulus package road crew, there isn't income to carry through until the economy picks up, and the family home is lost to Obama's Buddies in the Banking Industry, and a covered up fast track foreclosure.

And its not just that person who loses, it is his wife, his kids, his parents...

And it is witnessed by his friends, his extended family, his co-workers, and probably long term most importantly, his potential employer.

Do you think Factory builders don't understand that the American Workers they'd be hiring at top dollar for Degree Required positions, are NOT the best of the talent pool, but those with the right Paint-Job? So why build the factory HERE? In other counties, their workers have degree by MERIT!

Go ahead, lefties, just keep it up, just keep the Racial Preference ever increasing, and ever lasting.

And when that 76% of the population is fed up, and just 72% of the 76% decide to vote against Liberalism, the Democratic Party, and Continuing the Inefficiency, Insolvency, Injustice, and Insanity of Racial Preferences, well...

0.76 X 0.72% = 55% of the Vote.

That is outside the Voter Fraud "Cheat Margin" that the Democrats can field, and they lose!

As the OP said, it is just a matter of time, and when the Voters have spoken, and Racial Preference supporting Candidates are Gone, then we talk about Race Relations.

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You are joking, right? You are playing some kind of role here.

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You have amazing math skills. I love how you reached that 76% figure. Way to show your work.

 

Read the provided Link Genius, the 76% comes from ABC news polling on the subject.

If you're going to insult someone's math, at least take the time read the fracken link.

Could Liberals be any more Tone-Deaf?

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Affirmative Action is the least whites can do for generations of injustice and slavery, the election of a Black President does not explain why African American's are more likely to go to prison than to college.

Now for the few that make it, you want to end that privilege as well?

 

I've been filling out job applications recently while skipping the AA questionnaire. Will they throw all these applications out because I didn't fill out that sheet?

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I wasn't alive during the days of slavery, so why is it my responsibility to provide reparations?