You are clearly opposing/rejecting Christianity maybe even anti-Christian, and somewhat biased against Americans. You have stated you believe living a good life (doing good deeds) is what’s important, and you have stated you don’t believe in God and you reject “religion”.
Thats the same as trying to change someones mind while accepting that they may not change their mind (something all reasonable people accept). You can say you're 'not trying' until you're blue in the face, but if it were true, you wouldn't be here expending effort on it. Theres no reason to 'add [counterpoint] to a conversation' except for trying to change the minds (actions, really) of others. And theres absolutely nothing wrong with doing that, as long as we respect eachothers free will to disagree.
Well frankly I am not sure what god is and from what I read here and in history neither is anyone else. If you want to fill in the blanks go ahead. Wait five minutes and stone will tell you you are wrong. I reject RELIGION not spirituality. I reject what holier than thou religion has done in its name. Americans? I don't dislike them I think the ones I encounter in the media are misguided. However I have a clutch of American friends I made 52 years ago and whom I treasure deeply. Doing good deeds runs across most faiths. By no means just Christian. It is a social necessity. However these things are not philosophies or living tenets. Oh...forgot the other one...the greatest good for the greatest number. Since it is impossible to please all of the people all of the time. That's it really. Short, simple and undemanding of others.
Please think about the purpose of exchanging information. I do it you throw lights on things that are nor evident. There is a great deal of need to add information relevant to a discussion. It often changes the entire understanding of an issue. What you do with it is not my business. Nor will it make much difference in the scheme of things. I am fundamentally a teacher , not a preacher. I have known the difference most of my adult life.
I'm not aware of that. But it wouldn't surprise me. Nor that a great majority approved of the murders. However many thought it good to silence them with death, are condemned moreso than the continuance of their words had they remained. And so ended their own choice or option in the doing. They killed his servants who preceded him. Then they killed him. Then they killed those who followed him. There is no depth the devil will not go to prevent the truth. Hence the bottomless pit.
Are you making a distinction between 'changing understanding of an issue' and 'changing minds'? I see no distinction... those are just two ways of saying the same thing.
Very nice. Lucifer and a third of heavens hosts chose to rebel against God while in his very presence. They have no shame. Such are their doctrines as well. Anyway, thanks for keeping the concept of obedience to the greater thing in mind. It is crucial.
I never said you did - what you introduced into this discussion were the unrelated subjects of race and Islam. First of all, I have never believed, interpreted or claimed that salvation can be obtained by works alone. Secondly, Islam and what it demands of its followers is not relevant to this discussion which pertains to a specific doctrinal dispute (sola fide) within the Christian faith. It is not relevant to the tangential issues I mentioned in the OP, either, whether it be that of the debate between Erasmus of Rotterdam and Martin Luther about the freedom/bondage of the will or the doctrine of Total Depravity. We are discussing a specific doctrinal dispute within the Christian faith. The subject of this discussion is not comparative religion, the tenets of other faiths, or the doctrinal disputes within other faiths. If I was interested in conducting a conversation on those subjects I would have done so, but I did not. Muslims are expected to do many things, but that is irrelevant to the subject of this thread. I answered that irrelevant question earlier in this thread, and it doesn't concern the subject of this discussion. I'm an Agnostic. What exactly is my salvation, how is this salvation mine to give, and how is it relevant to the subject of this thread (sola fide)?
In a diverse world wherein Islam is part of the Christian family it is perfectly acceptable to ask if such picayune discussion about doctrine also applies to your cousin faith. Or ask if such issues involve only western faith even though they about a universal God. IOW are you trying to define Islamic god too since there is only one God. The whole things just seems like an exclusive club talking for everyone without any discussion between them. Bottom line...either you are talking about the nature of God for all faiths or your universal God is not universal. You can't have it both ways. The relevance is that these arcane discussions are not about the nature of the accepted idea of the one God. They are about the god defined in a very small corner of "goddom" and perhaps should not be taken very seriously.
That certainly was not the perspective I was trying to convey. Doing good works to earn yourself credit is self-serving, and that is distinctly different from the good works and the spirit of the good works Jesus mentions in the passage from Matthew. Makes sense to me....
I was born/baptised/ confirmed LCMS. Sola fide is all I knew about for a long time. Then I heard about the RC version of salvation and it was totally different. Grace and works and such. Each religion gets to make up whatever they want to say about salvation. There's no 1 rule or 1 size fits all. It's all belief.
Jesus never wrote anything. So we don't have 1st hand knowledge of anything Jesus ever said. But what translation are you getting that Jesus has claimed to be "the" son of God? And not "a" son of God? ... The term "son of God" is used in the Hebrew Bible as another way to refer to humans who have a special relationship with God. In Exodus, the nation of Israel is called God's firstborn son.[2] Solomon is also called "son of God".[3][4] Angels, just and pious men, and the kings of Israel are all called "sons of God."[5] Son of God - Wikipedia
And that is the rub entirely with the bible. One book says one thing, another book seems to contradict it. That's a reason there's 100s of version of christianity and thousand of denominations of those versions. One can interpret pretty much anything anyone wants to interpret. There's no 1 size fits all. Believe what one wants. In the end, it will all end the same.
Also, the chosen people, the Jews, they don't accept Jesus as their savior. So does that mean God's chose people, correction from Jews to Hebrew, not get to the promised land? Why would god choose a people and then reject them?
Ah, that coincides with what I posted a little while ago. It matters not what one believes. For in the end, we all end up in the same place. So talk of sola fide or works doesn't seem to really need to be discussed.
Unless you have a direct link to God, you have no idea what is God's way. Only what you believe to be God's way. Not everyone will believe your God's way. It is also why there's thousands of different christian denomimations. Hundreds of different christian religions. And why there's 3(at least) religions based on just the God of Abraham.
Indeed God is not the possession of one faith. Or one faith to define. So when one tries to define hom, they define him for every faith. And I am not sure that is possible. BTW Islam is noted for its good works. Muslims are expected to give time and money to charity even a prescribed amount. It is called the Zakat. The Islamic God isn't satisfied with just faith.
So are you saying that it's my way or the high way? That if you are not here to convert people you should not be able to give an opinion? Afterall, all anyone has on this topic of religion and philosophy is one's own opinion. There's nothing to put in stone right or wrong. It's all a belief. Nothing more.
There's a huge difference between 'might change someones mind' and 'trying to change someones mind'. IMO, one is coming from a point of view of what they think is correct and the other is coming from a point of view that it is the only correct choice. When the number of religions all over just the USA show that there is clearly NO ONE Clear choice. EDIT: One case is an open mind subject to change if someone can offer better belief and the other is closed mind never given another opinion a consideration.
So you do have a philosophy. But it most certainly is not undemanding of others. "the greatest good for the greatest number" most certainly imposes on other people. For example, someone who believes in man caused global warming and that it is an exostential threat would support government imposed activity to counter global warming. Elimination of coal based energy production and gas powered vehicles, forced use of EVs, banning gas powered vehicles from a state, has national impacts that effect (and harm) everyone including people who oppose AGW and these mandates. Or banning guns. Or forcing vaccinations. Or shutting down a nation to fight a "pandemic". You would see these as the greatest good for the greatest number?
No, Islam is not part of the Christian family and it is not a "cousin faith". As discussed before, Islam and Christianity are mutually exclusive. Islam believes in salvation through works, directly denies any divine aspect of Jesus, denies the crucifixion and resurection, believes the New Testament is completely corrupted and all of Jesus teachings were lost (hence god sent Mohammed), directly states that Christians are blasphemers and guilty of idolatry (and to such as degree that it is considered a "major shirk" which is punishable by death), believes it is better for a person to be killed than to let that person live in a state of apostasy (you reject Islam, you die, Islam is literally a "convert or die" religion). The "god" of Islam is not the God of Christianity. I suspect you will claim that those items are not accurate. Read the koran and hadith. God is universal in that He is everywhere and available to everyone. God being universal does not mean that all faiths worship the same "god" or that all faiths are equivalent. Its not true that all roads lead to God. People make choices, and some choose incorrectly.
