Solving climate crisis will require a total transformation of global energy

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by skepticalmike, May 19, 2021.

  1. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    It failed to take the place of NG as promised that is why it failed since power production prices are skyrocketing which is mainly the fault of "renewables" failing to fill in the power supply blanks.

    There was no supply problems and no soaring prices until Wind and Power was forced into the grid, now it is harder and harder to keep up.

    The so called gas storm exist BECAUSE of the irrational reliance on irregular power supply of these low mass renewable generation.

    You fail at math badly because you don't read through it.

    Here is the new article showing what an utter failure low mass intermittent power production these overrated "renewables" really are.

    From Watts Up With That?

    Column: Looming European energy crisis: A lesson in averages that won’t soon be forgotten

    ======

    Wind and Power reliance for electricity production is a study on Governmental/Environmentalist boondoggle in the making.....
     
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  2. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    EV's are a technological step backward. They will fade like the fad that they are. As for cooling:

    Solar Update September, 2021
    Guest Blogger
    This figure also shows a flat trend through the 1970s cooling period followed by a 40 year long downtrend in activity. Whatever solar processes caused the Modern Warm Period and…

    Our planet’s temperature peaked in 2016 and has been in a disciplined decline since. It is in a channel 0.5°C wide with a slope of -0.03°C per annum. The atmosphere had been warming at 0.013°C per annum according to Dr Roy Spencer’s work. If the established cooling trend continues it will only take another decade to get back to the temperatures of the early 1980s. With the cooling trend firmly established, the question is: Can the proximate cause be found in the solar record?

    [​IMG]
    . . . .
     
  3. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    See "Planet of the Humans."
    Maybe it will be competitive one day, but it is not today.
    Laws and subsidies will do that.
    Only the ones who don't pay attention to actual empirical science are. They seem to like being proved wrong.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
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  4. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Meh, both sides really miss the point with their all or nothingness. The battery farms which are being driven by the push for green energy really do have some great potential benefits even for traditional energy systems. Municipal suppliers can stockpile electrons at off-peak hours and release them at peak times to help contain costs. In addition, with so much electricity zooming over longer distances, having battery back ups may allow communities to weather an otherwise storm related outage even if it is only for an hour or 4 to give them time to get the transmission system going again. Not due to extreme weather, but he have had issues locally with the in-bound transmission lines going down due to ice or lightening strikes. I wouldn't complain if my city built a tesla farm to back up our hydro/gas suppliers for when that happens, or to keep our all year round price don by taking the sharp edge off those peak demand surcharges.
     
  5. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  6. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    It turns out that regular old businesses are traveling under a false climate flag.
    New Documentary Reveals How Corrupt And Destructive Green Energies Are: “This Is A Broken System”
    By P Gosselin on 26. September 2021

    Share this...
    The green energy future is not green at all, a stunning new documentary shows how corrupt and destructive it is to our environment.

    A former KPMG employee in London realizes that the green energy movement is corrupt throughout.

    The whole time things started feeling funny. It was like a glitch. It’s like, this doesn’t feel right. These people are doing these big projects, making lots of money. But they’re not sustainable. You know, these are some of the most ego-driven monsters. There is a lot of dark stuff in these companies’ supply chains. It’s all about money, and they’re using the sustainability agenda as just another tool, another stick to beat their suppliers with.” – Alexander Pohl, former employee, KPMG London. “These people are everywhere. it’s a systemic corruption.”

    The Green Movement is based on lies: Man has not become the biggest climate driver, and green energies are not rescuing the environment. The opposite is what’s real.

    Marijn Poels latest film, Headwind, shows us that much of the green energies now being installed are irreversibly ravaging the environment and how it’s about corporations making tonnes of money. . . .
     
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  7. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Stupid decisions have negative consequences.

    And It’s Not Even Winter! Europe’s Energy Supply Debacle Already Here: Painful Prices, Shortages, Blackouts

    By P Gosselin on 29. September 2021

    Share this...
    Empty gas stocks, windless days, disrupted supply lines, CO2 certificates, soaring inflation, blackouts, bitter cold and other forebode a winter of discontent across Europe.

    Recently Bloomberg reported on how Europe was on the path to a severe energy crisis this winter, with risks of blackouts. . . .
     
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  8. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  9. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    Not going to shed any tears for a stupid people who should have seen the obvious coming earlier, it was OBVIOUS that "renewables" are LOW MASS energy supplier and being intermittent and hard on grid stability.
     
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  10. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    I can just see it:

    Dateline February 2, 2022 - CO2, Climate Change Killing Thousands in Groundhog Day Cold Snap

    NASA climate czar Professor James Hansen confirmed today that winter would continue for six more weeks, as the agency's most reliable climate forecaster, Punxatawney Phil, saw his shadow and dived back into his burrow. "Our irresponsible CO2 emissions have caused this disaster, which is killing thousands of people in Europe and the USA. If we had not been burning so much fossil fuel, there would have been no need to switch to the unreliable and expensive renewables that have left so many good people on both sides of the Atlantic to freeze in the dark."

    NOAA's Chief of Climate Data Management Dr. Gavin Schmidt also weighed in on the worsening climate crisis, observing, "Since last year, our data on global climate in the 1930s have been improved significantly, confirming that it was even colder than we already knew it had to have been." The newly re-re-re-re-revised data prompted NOAA to rename the Dust Bowl as "The Decade Without a Summer," while Wikipedia, Google and Facebook have all endorsed NOAA's plan to remove all the now-incorrect mentions of the 1930s Dust Bowl and heat waves from historical material available through their websites.
     
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  11. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Brilliant!
     
  12. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who is the home team in the Dust Bowl?
     
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  13. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    The transition will be postponed.
    EIA: Renewables no longer expected to be #1 by 2050
    David Middleton
    Guest “Just a bit outside” by David Middleton In the Energy Information Administration’s (EIA) 2020 International Energy Outlook, renewables (including hydroelectric) were forecast to surpass petroleum and other liquid fuels…
     
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  14. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  15. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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  16. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    They are an acquired taste.8)
     
  17. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sometimes we laugh in order not to cry.
    Having Fun Watching Wind And Solar Failing To Step Up To Power The World Economy
    October 08, 2021/ Francis Menton
    [​IMG]

    • You don’t have to be any kind of a genius to figure out that wind and solar generation are never going to supplant fossil fuels in powering the world economy.

    • Mainly, the wind and sun only work part time, indeed well less than half of the time at best. With wind, you never know when it might work, and over a year a given facility might on average produce about 30-35% of rated capacity, with long and random periods of nothing. With the sun, you know from the get-go that you will get nothing fully half the time (i.e., night); and cloudy days wipe out half and more of the remaining half, again at random times. Averaged over the year, you’ll be lucky to get 20% of rated capacity from a solar facility.

    • With the world economy finally bouncing back (hopefully) from the year-and-a-half of pandemic, this is the moment for wind and solar to step up and show what they can do. All the advanced economies (Europe, UK, U.S., Canada, Australia) have been pushing wind and solar for a couple of decades, with tens of billions of dollars of various subsidies and tax breaks. There are now wind turbines and solar panels all over the place.

    • Simultaneously they same countries have shuttered coal plants, reduced nuclear, banned fracking in many places (Europe, the UK, and much of the U.S.), and discouraged fossil fuels of every sort in a hundred different ways. Now there is a surge in demand for manufactured goods of every sort. That will take some energy.

    • Let’s see what the wind and the sun can do!
    READ MORE
     
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  18. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  19. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

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    Well Jack, this is what happens when ideology and propaganda replaces rational thinking and basic math skills that would have guided people to see the obvious weaknesses of "renewables" and their LOW mass power calculus.

    Yet it does have some NICHE uses for the off grid homesteader who can use it for simple energy needs which green ecoloonies mostly ignore because they irrationally think they can replace 24/7 baseload power with "renewable" power that is by default unable to maintain stable baseload power production.

    Now the ideology is coming back to haunt them as darkness is in itself haunting to those suffering from already occurring energy blackouts.
     
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  20. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    • Thanks for that. I had no idea gas prices were going so nuts in the rest of the world.
      Never is a long time. Though I agree wind power is likely a dead-end technology because of its inherent cost, unreliability and low density, the cost of solar is monotonically decreasing as the technology improves, while fossil fuel resources are monotonically being exhausted. At some point -- maybe in 10 years, maybe in 100 -- those lines will cross, and fossil fuels will be obsolete for any but niche uses like aviation and high-latitude installations. That's unless something better than solar comes along. The great thing about solar is that it is inherently decentralized and egalitarian: access to the resource can't be owned, restricted or monopolized, so it's just a matter of developing the right technology to exploit it.
      But against that is the fact that the sun very reliably pours 1300W/m^2 onto the earth, or more than a gigawatt per km^2. That's more energy in two days than all the fossil fuel energy humanity has ever used. Given reasonable conversion efficiency and economically feasible overnight storage, there will be no way for fossil fuels to compete. It hasn't happened yet, but unless our technological advance somehow stalls, it certainly will.
     
  21. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    But are renewables firms' subsidy profits enough to have motivated the whole anti-fossil-fuel hysteria scam? It doesn't seem possible. There must be something more to it.
    I have often warned non-socialist but left-leaning critics of the current economic system (with whom I am generally sympathetic) not to get married to anti-CO2 hysteria, with results I am sure you can imagine. Is it possible that a significant component of the whole scam is a long con designed to humiliate and destroy opponents of modern finance capitalism by encouraging them to inflict on the world the kind of energy shortage disaster we have now begun to see unfold? If we have also, as some more realistic climate models now suggest, entered a multi-decade cooling phase, then the deserved opprobrium poured on everyone who has publicly bought into the "CO2-controls-global-temperature" scam will be utter and irrecoverable.
     
  22. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    There may be real potential in solar, but there are huge difficulties to overcome as well if we were to try to adopt solar as our primary base load power source. Meanwhile, don't count out fossil fuels.
    “Our supplies of natural resources are not limited in any economic sense. Nor does past experience give reason to expect natural resources to become more scarce. Rather, if history is any guide, natural resources will progressively become less costly, hence less scarce, and will constitute a smaller proportion of our expenses in future years.”
    ― Julian L. Simon
     
  23. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Like petroleum 150 years ago...?
    We won't run out of fossil fuels in my lifetime, but if we keep using them at an increasing rate, we will definitely run out.
    That is a bald falsehood. The supplies of all natural resources are not only limited but fixed in the economic sense: they do not respond to price and cannot be increased by labor.
    Tell it to the whales. Tell it to the Grand Banks cod. Tell it to anyone in the market for standing timber.
    <yawn> Locations on the earth's permanent solid surface are a natural resource. Has Professor Simon priced a vacant building lot almost anywhere in the USA recently?
    Tell it to the whales. Tell it to anyone in the market for a vacant lot to build a house on.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
  24. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    I suggest you spend a little time studying the late Professor Simon. Pay particular attention to his wager with Paul Ehrlich about natural resources. Simon won.
     
  25. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    I'm familiar with Simon and the "Limits to Growth" nonsense he was combating.
    I'm familiar with that, too. The bet was not about natural resources, it was about commodities, and Ehrlich merely showed he didn't know any economics, as well as not knowing any history or systems theory. There is a big difference between natural resources like fossil fuels, standing timber, whales, fish stocks, etc. and the refined metals Ehrlich and Simon bet about. Ehrlich didn't understand that the prices of refined metals are largely governed by the state of mining and refining technology, not the state of reserves. As a result, the real prices of almost all such commodities have been trending down for centuries. But with metals, you can just mine lower-grade ore as higher-grade ore is exhausted. You can even re-mine mine tailings. You can't do that with fossil fuels because at some point, the energy you can get out doesn't pay for the energy you have to put in.
     

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