Call em w/e you want. I want more of them to have a chance at life, yes, even if that life may start in poverty. Plenty of the impoverished grow up to enjoy life and contribute to humanity. Everyone(thing, w/e) deserves that chance.
What YOU want is not relevant outside your mind. It is also very likely your "Compassion" does not continue after this "child" actually becomes a child outside of the mother. If I am incorrect please show me how. Adoption documents would suffice. Thought charity contributions to Unicef or some other child assistance program would also help.
Why do you want more children to live in poverty ?!!! What did they ever do to you ????? It sure doesn't have anything to do with logic.....and YOUR morals are NOT everyone's.
Why ? Let me ask, are you one of the Anti-Choice righties who scream about the cost of Welfare, WIC, SNAP, and other social programs that aid children
But to many anti choice people...life begins at conception and ends at birth.. you are personifying A ZEF . If a woman cannot afford to have a child and isn't responsible to parent, why not wait?
What I want is absolutely relevant in proposing new ideas for social programs. Which is all Im doing here.
No, Im humanizing (wtf is a zef?) unborn human children. 'Person' is a legal construct of a human, rooted in the word 'persona.' Im not ssying a woman who cant afford a child or isnt responsible to parent should do anything. Im saying those of us who value human life should be seeking to provide those women alternatives to abortion, like subsidized adoption, to increase the pool of responsible, eager, capable parents.
A ZEF =zygote, embryo,fetus. It is a POTENTIAL person..it is no more a person than an acorn is a tree. It is up to the woman to decide if she wants it to become a person or not. Let me guess, you're a man who does not have to go through pregnancy and the agony of childbirth and then tells a woman to give it up for adoption, . You don't have to be responsible for an unwanted child for 18 years. Most abortions are done in the first trimester when it weighs about 1/10 of an ounce. I suggest you watch handmaids tale on Netflix where women are forced to breed against their will. And I do have to laugh that pro choice people don't value human life. We are the ones who don't complain about helping poor children,while anti choice only care about ZEFs "..not children
A human ZEF doesn't have to BE humanized, it IS human. And women know that, they do not need your instruction. Want alternatives to abortion? Raise the minimum wage so women can get out of poverty. Give free higher education to those who can't afford it. Then they will get better jobs, pay more in taxes, and not fear being pregnant and too poor to raise a kid. However, you don't seem to consider that some women just don't want a kid whether they can afford it or not. You don't understand that a pregnancy is a great setback to women in many ways whether they give up the kid or not.... How much should they be paid to give up 9 months of their lives , suffer temporary and permanent effects of pregnancy, suffer financial/educational/career setbacks, even possible job loss......how much is that worth?
Again, Im not telling or trying to force anyone to do anything. What part of making abortion alternatives more available/affordable endangers a womans choice? Im pro choice. Im not saying anything about pro choicers. If anything, Im demonstrating the pro-lifes lack of conviction by failing to garner their support here. Ya'll are projecting quite a lot on to me based on the simple fact that I don't LIKE abortion. Im not advocating its removal as an option in any way.
No, I understand all of that. At no point have I advocated anything that endangers a womans right to choose. You're projecting that onto me based off of stereotypes of other people that DISLIKE abortion who ALSO want to ban it. I would never advocate forcing someone to raise a child that they dont want. I just want to help the parents that DO want children match up with the children who need parents so there is less demand for abortion.
There are plenty of kids NOW to adopt...oh, they may not be pretty white perfect and babies but they are still children WAITING to be adopted... Yes, it may be difficult to adopt but why should it be easy? So anyone breathing can have a kid? That's a bad idea, I fully support adoption for those who pass background checks (which cost money) and have a good enough income to support kids. There doesn't need to be less demand for abortion, it's a medical procedure.
Why do you feel adoptees have no right to search out their birth parents? It's not our fault we were given up, and we have the right to find out where we came from, IMO.
Bovine excrement. Using contraception is a clear statement one does not want to be pregnant - and 51% of women in the US who abort were using it. Why would a woman "choose" to get pregnant, then abort for non health/fetal health reasons?
Over 98% of abortions are done BEFORE viability. Women who do not wish to be pregnant do not choose to be. And they can abort if they so choose. Want a hero biscuit?
Theres a huge gap between 'easy' and the current adoption system. And no, there are not plenty to adopt now. Not infants, anyway. You have a point about older children not being adopted. I would like to see that happen more as well, but thats a seperate issue as they're almost always put into the system after infancy. Very few if any infants stay in the system for long because there is a high demand for them by parents that often are unable to adopt because of, imo, unreasonably high financial blocks that subsidaztion would ease. Background checks are indeed important... but what would be so bad about the state footing the bill for them if it means more children will be put into homes with parents that want them?
Because when a woman gives up a child it should be for ever. That was her choice. Yes, some women may want to know about the child but neither mother nor child should have the right to disrupt someone else's life by popping up and saying, "Here I am". It could affect a lot more people than mother and child. If a stranger showed up at my door and claimed they were my spouse's kid,or even my kid... I'd gently close the door....I do not need nor want that type of drama..... And, no , I don't believe they have a right to know....the people who raised you and gave you food , shelter and love are your parents. Plus absent parents can get romanticized especially by teenagers when there is nothing romantic or good about the missing parent....... Sorry if I seem harsh, especially to you.... .
"""but what would be so bad about the state footing the bill for them""""" WHAT! Raise taxes to take care of children!!!! You'll be fighting the Repubs tooth and nail on that!!!!
So why are you fighting me on it? The entire convo has been about subsidized adoption. That literally means paying for (some of) it with tax money. ...and now you wanna blame the pubs. Also, theres no need to raise taxes if we can defund some unpopular stuff like DEA or BATFE or drone warfare and free up some of the budget.
Good grief , where was I fighting you? I was pointing out a HUGE fact of life: FoxHastings said: ↑ """but what would be so bad about the state footing the bill for them""""" WHAT! Raise taxes to take care of children!!!! You'll be fighting the Repubs tooth and nail on that!!!!""" That is the TRUTH....Repubs HATE things like welfare, WIC, SNAP even funding healthy school lunches.....why do you think they'd willingly give money to people for adoption?
OK, this is ridiculous. First, YOU don't get to decide what is acceptable for others because YOU didn't mind "poverty". Second: There are different views of what "poverty" is and different levels.....I would've loved a true peek at your youth and what you thought was "poverty". And you have no Magic Mental Powers to "know" what others want.....especially "others" who have never existed so have no thoughts or feelings... ....there is no logic there. Maybe you meant ( more realistically) that you would rather be raised by poor parents than raised by the state.....that would make more sense....
To reduce rates of abortion. No, I meant that I prefer existance and the chance at life instead of having been snuffed out in the womb, even though that life started out in a 1-room plywood shack in the Ozarks with no running water or electricity. And also no, its not unreasonable to presume that because I do/did, others likely would prefer the chance as well. In fact, many philosophers and sociologists hold that the 'golden rule' (treat others as you would have others treat you) is the secular moral foundation that civilized society is built upon.
