Texas gun control activist shoots her three children dead

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Well Bonded, Nov 3, 2019.

  1. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Donor

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    And that is a two way road.

    I have worked many times in a facility in West Pembroke Pines which houses a number of fine ladies, some of whom have shot, slit the throats, or just beat to death their men.

    Nice girls, fine girls, some really good looking too, just don't turn your back on them.

    Then there is a facility I have worked in many times in East pines which houses boys and girls, fine little kids, some of whom have shot, slit the throats, stabbed or just beat to death their parents and or other children some of whom where there siblings.

    I was in there one day with another AT&T tech being escorted by a guard and one of the little angles bumped into the tech I was working with, later he discovered his AT&T ID card that was clipped to his pocket was missing.

    They locked the place down, I not understanding prison life, jokingly commented to our escort "what's the big deal, it's an ID card, what's the kid going to do, play Phoneman," the guard explained to me whoever stole it will take the plastic ID card hone it on the floor and turn it into a plastic blade to slash someone up.

    I looked at the guard and I am sure by the look on my face he could tell I was stunned by just how evil these little innocent looking children actually are and why they required us to carry our tools in prison provided canvas bags, that we had to carry, versus wearing our tool belts.

    I can just imagine what one of these little snots could do with a Klein 4" screwdriver or my razor sharp alpeth knife?
     
  2. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    "Results
    Of over 14,000 incidents in which the victim was present, 127 (0.9%) involved a SDGU [Self-defense gun use]. SDGU was more common among males, in rural areas, away from home, against male offenders and against offenders with a gun. After any protective action, 4.2% of victims were injured; after SDGU, 4.1% of victims were injured. In property crimes, 55.9% of victims who took protective action lost property, 38.5 of SDGU victims lost property, and 34.9% of victims who used a weapon other than a gun lost property.

    "Conclusions
    Compared to other protective actions, the National Crime Victimization Surveys provide little evidence that SDGU is uniquely beneficial in reducing the likelihood of injury or property loss."
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091743515001188

    If there's any benefit to using a gun in self-defense it is greatly outweighed by the tragedy of hundreds of Americans being injured and killed with guns every single day.
     
  3. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    No, but guns make the problem worse- like throwing gasoline on a fire.
     
  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    But arresting men for something that doesn't need to be a crime will make the problem better. [sarcasm]

    I'd speculate that in 95% of the cases where a man kills his woman with a gun, in situations where he wouldn't have killed her if the gun was not there, the woman already had plenty of warning signs, was living in a domestic violence situation, should have known her life was in danger, but stayed with the man anyway.

    I doubt guns lead to men killing their spouses totally out of the blue.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  5. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

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    What is the exact breakdown of the number of injuries and/or deaths that can be attributed to law-abiding individuals with no history of engaging in illegal behavior, as opposed to those with extensive criminal records?
     
  6. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

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    How is the existing problems of violence and murder being perpetrated against private citizens, actually made worse by the potential victims having the means and opportunity to physically resist efforts at victimization?
     
  7. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's BS and you know it.
     
    An Taibhse likes this.
  8. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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  9. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Donor

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    Please qualify that statement. How can a gun make someone commit violence?
     
  10. Shook

    Shook Active Member

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    I don't think it's that either. It's not an example of "mental issues" because her issues were not in her head, they were real and apparently caustic.
     
  11. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Depression is categorized as a mental health issue by many in the medical field. It's not universally agreed upon at this time though.

    Either way depression and anxiety, depending on the severity, are things that can cause very real personal and social issues. Quite a large percentage of suicidal victims suffered from depression or anxiety or both.

    Plus this woman murdered her 3 children then turned the gun on herself. There is something mentally "wrong" with a person if they choose to do something like that. No normal functioning person would ever commit such an act.
     
  12. Shook

    Shook Active Member

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    People are capable of anything if pushed far enough.
     
  13. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Exactly which is why I believe this particular case gives some weight to the Red Flag law debate.

    I am personally torn on the issue because I believe it's way too broad of a law and way too subjective but I believe cases like this give weight to that argument. At what point do we as a society, while maintaining a society based on freedom and liberty, decide that it is "ok" for law enforcement to step in and basically preemptively take guns away from folks who are seemingly on the brink of possibly doing something tragic like this?
     
  14. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    We don't need these Red Flag Laws. If a person is reported as being a danger then that person should be held in protective custody, not their firearms. Removing firearms from the situation only removes part of the problem. Holding a dangerous person takes care of the whole problem.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  15. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    And that's my overall problem with Red Flag laws which is why I am torn. I do believe that there are some certified nutcases out there who do not need to be in possession of firearms for both their own safety and the safety of those around them. But the subjective nature of that very argument is simply too broad to ever accurately enforce and too broad to apply without some significant abuse.

    Who gets to make that call? Medical personnel? What if they disagree with one another as is the case fairly often. How many folks have gotten 2nd opinions about things from medical personnel?

    It's just too complex of a situation to tackle with legislation in my book. I do not view the Constitution as an a la carte menu, I believe that if you are of mental ability to exercise any rights then you should be able to exercise all rights. However, I also personally know people who are perfectly sane and mentally capable of functioning in society and exercising their right to vote and whatnot who are also hairpin trigger cases who absolutely lose their ever loving minds and get unnecessarily defensive and sometimes violent at the drop of a hat.
     
  16. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    You make some good points. I would add that it doesn't really matter what rules or laws are on the books if they are not enforced. Many of our mass shooters had been identified as have problems of one kind or another but nothing was done to hold them.
     
  17. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    That is very true and I agree with that as well. I think at the end of the day it really comes down to balance. In my personal opinion if a citizen is not mentally "stable" enough to own a firearm then they are not mentally stable enough to exercise any of their other rights as well and at that point they should be held as you said.

    I think the Red Flag law proposals start digging some very uncomfortable rabbit holes that we as a society don't need to go down. I can tell you first hand as someone with a physical medical issue the severity of a medical issue can vary greatly depending on which doctor you ask. And when it comes to mental illness as being a green light to confiscate someone's firearms for "safety" that's just way too subjective to be implemented fairly.
     
  18. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    that's so stupid its not worth bothering with. How many women are shot to death by men each year? And half a million DGUs a year-less than 3000 are by women? Complete BS
     
  19. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    It does if I am the case of self defense.
    My wife carries a 9mm and knows how to use it. Her society is safer.
     
  20. Shook

    Shook Active Member

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    So, you're okay with pushing someone over the edge and then blaming them for it? Is that why they're called "human resources"?
     
  21. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    Nothing out weighs the benefit if I am the one defending myself with a gun.
     
  22. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Not necessarily, but I am ok with at least hearing the argument to remove firearms from folks who may be a bit too unhinged to have them. I personally know people like that. I have a very good friend of mine who suffers from PTSD pretty severely at times and on one particular camping trip the guy just flat out snapped and pulled his Glock on me. It took about 10 mins of our other buddies trying to calm him down and convince him that I am his friend and not whoever his brain was pinging me as for some reason. True story, I step away from the campfire to take a leak and I walk back and he just loses it and keeps a gun pointed at my face. Knowing him well, knowing what he (and the rest of us) are trained to do, I was mortified. I'm pretty sure if our other friends weren't there to calm him down I would have died.

    He didn't remember any of it the next day and when we explained it to him he was heartbroken and balled his eyes out and hugged me for like an hour apologizing. But he actually didn't remember, his brain just snapped and that's not the first time he's snapped like that but it was the first time he did that with a gun in his hand that I am aware of.

    Point is, if someone argued that he shouldn't be in possession of firearms when he has a history of snapping like that then I would have difficulty arguing against that.
     
  23. Shook

    Shook Active Member

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    LOL I'll read the rest when I stop laughing. Good one. :roflol:
     
  24. Shook

    Shook Active Member

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    I'm very sorry you had this bad experience -- sorry for both you and your buddy. I sincerely hope it never happens again. :(

    The central problem with all this "red flag" feel-good legislation is that it won't work and it is not what liberals really want anyway. They don't give a **** now about people they know are unhinged and ready to commence a shooting. They don't really care, just like they don't care about mass shootings except for the headlines that make them look good as gun grabbers and Constitutional wrecking balls. What they want is your guns. Period. What they want is total control of what you do, what you have and what you think, and guns are very much in their way. So is the Constitution.

    One huge reason for their position is their religion of prescription medications, which not coincidentally are strongly associated with every mass shooting that is investigated. It would be, therefore, the big pharma corporations that are behind gun control, and whatever benefits that brings politicians is just peach icing on the cake.

    These people are evil. Never cut them a break. By the way, gun confiscation will not work. They're full of ****, but voters don't seem to think about that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019 at 1:51 PM
  25. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I agree mostly with what you have said here which is why I am personally not in favor of any new gun legislation. However, my point is when it comes to red flag proposals I as a rational person can't just sit here with my arms folded and say they have no argument. Not everything is just flat out black and white and there are times when certain things need to be addressed on a case by case basis.

    The argument against red flag laws is that it interferes with individual liberty and Constitutionally granted rights of those who haven't actually done anything wrong. On the surface that seems like a big hell no. However, there are cases out there to where one can say well.....hmmm.

    We like to say that the Constitution is not an a la carte menu and that it's all or nothing. But the second Amendment does have an asterisk next to it because it's the only Amendment in there that actually grants citizens the right to own deadly weapons. I've heard the argument for decades even by Supreme Court Justices that we can't treat the 2nd Amendment any different than the other Amendments and/or if the courts tried to treat any other Amendment with the same restrictions they often do the 2nd then all hell would break loose. I agree with that for the most part but there are certain cases to where I believe someone is not to the point of needing involuntary confinement and a stripping of all of their Constitutional Rights but they are a bit too "off" to be in possession of firearms.

    As the case with my friend. He is a perfectly normal functioning member of society and is highly intelligent. Our job is one that requires massive amounts of technical skill and experience to perform and he is better at it than I am. Can he make rational decisions and exercise his voting rights and whatnot? Yeah of course. But the guy snaps, a part of his brain is just wired weird and in certain situations he just loses it at the drop of a dime. Do I think that he is mentally stable enough to own firearms? Yeah 99% of the time. Do I think he is mentally stable enough to own firearms when he snaps like that? No.

    And that is where this whole thing gets tricky which is why I say I don't support red flag proposals on a general basis but I have a hard time arguing against it in certain specific cases. Do I support removing my friends right to defend himself and property? No. Do I understand exactly who this guy is and what he is capable of and professionally trained to do? Yeah I do, and I know first hand what this guy is capable of doing when his brain misfires on those rare occasions and him being in possession of firearms when he snaps like that is an extremely dangerous combination for both himself and folks around him.
     

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