That abortion is morally acceptable.

I think we need to go back to the beginning here for a minute because it seems to me like you're just making these things up as you go along.

You started with the statement:

When you confirmed that humans can lose their interest in their existence, you changed your statement to:

Which of course opens the statement up very broadly to the subjectivity of individual human interest. Since you're trying to claim that morality is objective, that statement can't stand, so you've tried to define a term called "the universalization of interests" Which of course is a fancy way to saying that morality is ultimately determined by majority opinion.

Of course, in this you've drawn from a false conclusion. Morality as determined by the universalization of a majority human opinion is not an objective truth. Human defined morality is a value judgement. Human morality doesn't decide whether it's true if a mother aborts her child. Morality is an attempt to decide whether it's right or wrong for her to do so. This classification of "right" and "wrong" exists (according to you) completely within the human experience. And since it's a product of experience, universalization falls victim to compartmentalization. Humans, through time, have had pretty conflicting views as it pertains to placing value on life. Women are generally valued less, for example. Alien groups are valued less. The handicapped are valued less. Deviants, and criminals, and mentally ill are valued less. The picking and choosing of which of these values are "universal" in light of the fact that no single value is held by all humans, is in itself a subjective task.

You can't say that slavery is universally immoral due to the universalization of moral opinion for the simple fact that slavers find it to be a moral practice. As another example, (and hopefully I can avoid the spirit of Godwin by saying) that supremacists find it to be moral to rid the world of impurity. They make value judgments about certain types of life and actually think that those life forms must be eliminated in order to preserve morality. That's the complete opposite of your theory, but it extends from the same source of your theory, the universalization of human experience.

If morality is objective these choices must be made by a system that is outside of the human decision making process and the human experience. What is that system? You've yet to define it.

l

It happens all the time. It's called prison. We take away freedom and the ability for free action for all sorts of reasons. Not in the the least of them is the preservation of our own free action. Society suspends liberty for ingesting the wrong substances, trading the wrong goods, fraud, theft, or even intolerance. Obviously morality is a little bit more nuanced then your simple universalization model. Even you subscribe to subjective value judgments that are braced only by your own conviction. If this is the case, then you have to agree that your morality is subjective.

If it's not the case, then please point to the objective source that can judge something right or wrong that exists outside of the human ability to do so.

 

Sure it's comparable. I just want you to admit that those comparisons are subjective. They are subject to the a human's system of values.

 

In thinking about this some more, I think the source of our disagreement is in the difference between a morality that is universal, and a morality that is absolute. A universal morality is not necessarily an absolute morality, as the examples provided have shown. If you wish to establish, for example, that slavery is absolutely wrong, you have to appeal to some other source then human reason, because quite clearly the universally reasoned opinion on the matter has changed back and forth over time. If morality is dynamic, it's not absolute. If it's absolute, it should not change over time.

 

I'm not, just to set things straight, making anything up.

I didnt change my statement, I elaborated. The third party recognizes the interest by the universalization of its own.

Wrong. Subjective interests are an objective phenomenon. This does not change the fact that some interests are the same in their value to each individual, despite subjectivity. All being wish to be alive (else they simply kill themselves and are no longer considered), Thus the interest, which is relative to each being, is still capable of being quantified by the fact it can be recognized by being possessed by each individual. As for the majority opinion bs, do you not realize that is self defeating to your own position since most people support abortion? Please respond to this blatant hypocrisy.

It isnt determined by majority opinion. It is determined by rational thought that any and EVERYONE should and can subscribe to.

It can be - but mine is an objective realization, not a simply preference.

You are once again misunderstanding my position, manipulating it and/or conflating other points. Let me ask you this, do people who attempt to keep themselves alive have an interest in being alive?

You are wrong once again. I am not arguing from opinion, I'm arguing from truth. My morality is based on truth - not opinion.

YAY! You finally get it!

The unviersalization of interests!

Again conflating what may happen with what should happen. Would you agree it is irrational for me to value my life above yours despite the fact they are the same interest, given everything else is equal?

Reason and the observation of truth.

 

But to admit that would be factually incorrect.

Which is objective, thus the comparison is not subjective.

 

Morality is absolute, which makes it universalizable - it is always correct. Now, as for diverging opinion on which morality best fits this description, that would not change whether my notion of morality as described here is right or wrong, just whether it is popularly held.

 

They are moral relativists. What is true for us is not true for them…or anyone else. No universal absolutes. For them some rapes are ok…murders…you name it…for them it varies from culture to culture…whatever that society believes at the time is ok.

 

That is what Fangbeer believes, apparently. It seems that's what you believe also.

 

You guys are great.
I admire the depth and breadth of your intellectual and philosophical knowledge and perspective.
Clearly you are well-read.

As for myself, the topic of abortion is one of a practical and visceral reality.
Girls get pregnant.
They don't want to have the baby.
They would like to avoid having the baby.
They go down to the abortion clinic, and have an abortion.
End of problem, until the next time. And the time after that.
Abortion is legal, and so they will continue to get the abortion whenever it is that they need it.
Supply and demand.
It's one of the foundations of our economy.

I personally find abortion a sad and unfortunate alternative to a larger and (admittedly) primordial problem.
Stupid girls get knocked up after foolishly having unprotected sex.

However, the ALTERNATIVE to abortions being legal is that stupid knocked-up girls will go to back-room abortionists and mom-and-pop abortionists, and that introduces the element of:
* unsanitary operating room conditions
* infection
* illness and death of the would-be mommy

And so, abortions should (in my opinion) remain legal.
So that the procedures may at least be standardized with regard to operating room sterilization, properly-credentialed doctors performing the abortions, and quality care for the stupid, formerly-pregnant girls.


Just so you know, I am not religious.
My own daughter stupidly got pregnant by some jackass boyfriend years ago, and (of her own volition) had the baby rather than abort it.
That 'baby' is now nearly 7 years old, and she is a national treasure. That little girl is smart, feisty, intelligent, beautiful, and has a wicked sense of humor.
My daughter is a hell of a young woman, and is a great and responsible single-mom. I am one proud granddad.

Just so you know, again; I am no saint.
When I was in between marriages, I tom-catted around while surfing on the North Shore of Oahu.
I broke up with a girl who REALLY did not want to be broken up with.
She pissed and moaned over it, and just generally caterwauled over the tragedy of being dumped.
Finally, she revealed to me that she was 'pregnant'.
(I imagine that she thought that I would change my mind over breaking it off with her if I thought she was pregnant with my child.)

I told her, "Look, dear. I will pay for the abortion, and I will look after you while you recover. But I am not going to have a baby with you."

She bleated, "But why not? We could be really good together! Whatever problems we have, the baby will bring us closer together."

"Our problems go deeper than anything a baby could fix. And by the way, a baby deserves a mommy and a daddy who love each other to look after it. You and I don't love each other. We just enjoyed having some really good sex for a while. Period."

In the end, it turns out that her claim of being pregnant was a false one.
She simply threw down the only card she believed that she had to play.
And I called her bluff.

Anyway.
Nice thread.
Please carry-on with the philosophical discussion.

 

sparky2 said,

Let me educate you a bit. Do you think that all abortion clinics are safe and sanitary? Clinics are closed down all the time because the conditions are so bad. Most abortion clinic standards are not even to the level of a vet clinic. And a lot of the doctors who administer the anesthetic are not qualify to do so. Many abortion deaths are related to this.

So you are pro-abortion and do not want protection for the innocent living unborn…but you want protection for the "stupid-pregnant girls". LOL

Gee…and we can't see that? LOL

You have the stupid in the wrong place in your statement. I think you meant to say…."my own stupid daughter…" as you call all other girls who get pregnant….right? It was not the boyfriends fault…your daughter consented…she allowed him to enter. Its her body, her risk….and her fault.

And I praise her for allowing her child to have life. Can you imagine life without her? Can you imagine an abortionist sucking her brains out of her tiny head? Or burning her, dissecting her alive? And yet you are pro-abortion.

You should be she made the right decision and look what you got. How can you look the other way and deny the unborn the same rights your grand baby got? How on earth can you condone abortion based on your experience?

None of us are…especially me.

You would have paid to have a child killed…because you didn't want to stop whoring around? Right?

(*)(*)(*)(*) your cold.

I thank God this very moment that you were not the father…had she been pregnant. God thank you. She obviously got the better end of the deal.

 

You don't know me, Churchmouse.

And I don't give you permission to judge me.

I just decided to enter this thread you might have some fresh perspective to chew on.

I'm a brutally-honest person, but probably also the most generous and kind man you might ever want to meet.
Life can be tough.
It's not like television, and it's definitely nothing like what the Catholic priests and nuns sold me on when I was an altar boy in the 1960's and 1970's.
It's up to each of us to make our own decisions, and to try and do the right thing.

I don't need your moralistic nattering. It sways me not one iota.

I HATE the idea of little tiny babies being sucked out of otherwise healthy wombs.
I HATE that all those little lives never had a chance to start, and to achieve something someday.

I'm also a realist though;
I recognize that some girls who don't want to have a baby will never be able to take CARE of that baby, and that the baby (with no daddy around, and a moron for a mommy) will most likely have a terrible life.
It is what it is.

Get off your high horse.

PS I like your dogs. And thank GOD you don't paint their toenails pink.

 

sparky said,

Unfortunately you have no control over that. You posted examples of you judging all sorts of people. Did they give you permission? I am not judging your heart…only God can do that. I can judge what you say and what you tell us that you do.

When you post something…those reading it have the right to response, that is what I did. And do feel free to comment on what I post.

You seem to be honest. I am honest as well. You might be kind in some ways…but not to the unborn if you think woman should be able to kill them.

if that were the case we would have a society that did not follow laws. Laws are supposed to protect people. I think the unborn deserves protection….you don't. I have the right to work to see abortion laws overturned.

Well…if you post something its fair game. And feel free to response to what I put out there. This is a thread all about morals….if you don't like what people say, me in particular then leave. I am not trying to sway you…but comment on what you say as a pro-abort.

No you don't…not if you want abortion legal. You are pro-abortion. If you cared you would oppose their deaths. You were even going to pay to have it done to your child. Listen I had an abortion…I do not beat around the bush, I am brutally honest…and you should be too about this.

That is obvious. And this much is also obvious. You do not value the life in the womb, not at all. Your a pretender…you want to think better of yourself than what you are morally. If you do not want protection for the unborn…YOU ARE PRO-ABORTION…and IMO that is immoral.

I am not an a high horse. If anyone is honest about what they have done its me, if you were a regular on here you would know that. We have pro-aborts lurking around here pretending to know all about this subject. They mock, make fun of…and bash the unborn. One even said they could eat one. So I have heard it all.

They are my babies…and the bigger one is male….no toenail polish.

 

Not everything is black and white, churchmouse.
There are always the grays.
The uncomfortable, real-life, disconcerting grays.

It would be really convenient if everybody were cleanly 'pro-abortion' or 'pro-life'.

Trust me, I am anti-abortion. I am pro-life.
I just don't fit your deeply-opinionated view of what those terms should mean.

What I MAINLY am is a truth-teller.
I tell the brutal, honest truth.
And here is the truth;
As much as I hate abortion, and as much as I mourn the loss of all those little lives that never got a chance,
I do know exactly how it is in the real world.

Here are some truths of the real world:
Girls screw up.
Girls are not always prepared to be mommies.
Some girls should NEVER be mommies.
If all abortions were suddenly illegal, then underground abortionists would spring up left and right to keep up with the demand.
Back-room butchers would very often cause the death of not only the tiny baby, but the mommy as well.
A lot of babies born to poverty, single parent situations, and abusive parents who didn't want the child in the first place-type situations would simply meet a tragic end just slight further down the timeline.

It's sad, but it is how it is.


PS When I enter a courtroom with a lawyer, and stand before the judge, expecting some sort of judgement (either for or against me), then I am, in essence giving that court permission to judge me.

You?
I don't give you (or anyone else for that matter) permission to judge me.
When I post on a public web forum, I am simply expressing my opinion, or passing on some advice, based upon my education and life's experiences.
What I give other posters permission to do is to either agree with me, or to disagree with me.
But in the end, I reject any moral judgements they may feel compelled to pass onto me.

I give no one on the internet that power.
No one.

 

sparky2 I think I just fell in love with you

 

I get that a lot.

 

sparky2 said,

What is gray about rape? Incest? Murder? Pedophelia? Child Pornography? Slavery?

Tell me please. Is rape sometimes acceptable? Because if you say yes…or well its gray…then sorry you are sick.

The statement you just made is wrong.

Convenient? How about morally sound? If everyone were pro-life…then you all would not be here making dumb and immoral posts about the unborn. And if everyone was pro-life…think of how many more generations would be living on earth? In America over 50 million unborn babies have been slaughtered.
And what the heck do you mean by "cleanly"? Because abortion is a dirty little subject.

Trust you? Not on your life…the life your mother allowed you to have…nice eh? You are pro-abortion you just can't handle the truth about the position you hold. If you want abortion legal…and you do not believe the life in the womb deserves personhood…then you are pro-abortion. You are a pro-abort…so embrace it and quit hiding.

No you don't have the guts…to admit what you really believe. LOL You prance around and pretend to be something your clearly not. Not gray….here. You are a pro-abort.

No truth in your statements…..deception.

You hide behind lies…you lie in your statements about the unborn and about the position you don't have the guts to embrace. YOU WANT NO PROTECTION FOR THE HUMAN LIFE IN THE WOMB. YOU WON'T ADMIT THAT ABORTION KILLS A LIVING HUMAN BEING…..SO YOU IGNORE WHAT SCIENCE SAYS ABOUT LIFE AND YOU PRETEND TO BE MORAL ON THIS. YOU ARE NOT MORAL. YOU THINK WOMAN SHOULD BE ABLE TO HIRE A HIT ON THEIR LIVING OFFSPRING. HOW THE HELL DO YOU THINK THAT IS PRO-LIFE? LOL

You don't hate abortion. LMAO You want it legal. Should we legalize rape…you said yourself its gray. Should we legalize child pornography…hey the body is beautiful…no gray there. Should we allow people to have slaves? Hey I deserve one and besides its gray.

The fact is…you oppose protection for the very thing you PRETEND to care about. That is not gray…that is fact, one you don't and won't accept about yourself.

And? Should we allow people to do and get away with everything because people are going to screw up anyway? Hey..I had a few drinks last night and I killed someone on the way home from the bar. I didn't mean it…it is my right to drink anyway. And hey….crack cocaine isn't that bad I do it all the time. But I can't help what I do while I am on it. And besides its my right to do it…its MY BODY…AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL ME WHAT I CAN DO AND WHAT I CANT DO. Hey…lets make drugs legal…kids will do them anyway…so why not provide them with needles and a (*)(*)(*)(*) safe place to do it. They have sex too…hell I don't want my child in the back seat of a car….lets provide safe places for kids to have sex…and give them all the protection they need. Hey hotels for kids…all ages…cause God forbid there should not be an age that prohibits them from having sex. Nothing wrong with having sex with a minor, right? That is a gray one, right? Your morality is all over the place…

LMAO….Then if they are not old enough to be…..mommies…then they are not old enough to have SEX.

Should a person buy a house if they are not old enough to pay the mortgage…take responsibility for their house?
Should a person get behind the wheel of a car if they are not old enough to pay the penalty of what might happen when they drive?
Should a person jump off a five story building with no net and pretend they are superman?

NO….NO and NO

Then they should get sterilized….abortion is not the answer.

OMG….there have always been underground abortionists…the sleazy doctors who are not good enough to go into medicine. BEcause something might happen does not mean you should make it legal? I just demonstrated and I gave you scenarios that describe what you get if you do that. Quit using the term mommy…and tiny baby…you make me sick. Tiny baby (you mean its not a def…a nonliving human being)…you mean the one you YOU BELIEVE THE MOTHER SHOULD KILL…BECAUSE GOD KNOWS WHAT REASON YOU WOULD COME UP WITH.

Wow….kill to solve the worlds problems. Kill if the child is not perfect, MIGHT BE HANDICAPPED, MIGHT BE THE WRONG SEX, MIGHT BE GAY, MIGHT BE BORN TO PARENTS WHO MIGHT JUST HAVE PROBLEMS….MIGHT, MIGHT, MIGHT. What right do you have to decide who should be born and who should not. What right do you have to pretend you know what THEIR LIFE MIGHT, MIGHT, MIGHT BE LIKE?

Do you have a crystal ball? Can you see what every child who is ripped from their mothers, life will be like?

Hey is your family wealthy? happy all the time? Is your family exempt from sadness and the problems of life? Do tell me what family has no problems? Then tell me why there are so many successful people who have been born into families who have problems. Look what Helen Keller did with what she was given? Was she better off dead? How about Oprah….who was abused? Better off dead?

What is sad is your position and how you rationalize killing. No gray there….not to someone who can think logically and call you out on the inconsistencies of your position. And that is how it is…..to bad you don't get it.

Oh please….you judge people all the time. You judge what I put on here so don't give me that crap. You give the judge permission? LMAO Honey you have no choice in the matter…cause you will be judged whether you want to or not. And you will be judges I have no doubt on what you believe about the life in the womb.

What is sad is that…you can't even see yourself in the role you tell me and others not to do. You tell me I can't judge and then you do it. LMAO You do not have a say my dear whether I judge you or not. You can not control my feelings or what I say and think. So deal with it. And you are a judge…..you judge gave several excuses why you think a what do you call…."tiny baby" would be better off dead. YOU ARE JUDGING…THE UNBORN AND THE SITUATION. So get a grip….and deal with your position….I will continue on…judging the statements you post.

And that is why you are fair game to anyone who wants to response to what you say. Have you ever had an abortion to know what your talking about? What do you bring to the abortion table besides knives and scissors?

I don't believe you said this….LOL You have no control over anyone on here for crying out loud. What you say is fair game. And I personally, morally, ethically think your position is immoral. And you do too but you don't seem to care. You call the unborn tiny baby…you call the woman doing the hit…a mommy…..yea you know but you don't care. You don't want people to judge you…yet you judge the unborn.

So…... you have no control over what I think or post….and there is no gray there. As long as I follow the rules of the forum…you have no control over me. Your position is immoral and ghastly….it is sad, cold, pathetic….and unjust.

You have no control over what I post regarding what you post. I have a right to judge what you say….I have a right to question and reply to your posts….and you have no control over that……sorry.

 

sparky2 said,

And you have all your ducks in a row?

I figured you would not get it. You said things are not black and white that most things are gray. Is rape gray? child pornography? My point is that most things the big things are black and white…no gray. Abortion is one of them.

I am not dishonest. How am I dishonest. You have stated your opinion…I am making comments on it. That is not being dishonest.

Always? I think you are deceiving yourself about your position on abortion.

ARE they black and white issues then?


You might want to consider visiting the church counselor, and getting some advice on seeing a psychiatrist or a therapist.
You have seriously anger issues, lady.
And you have a very curious view of the world.

I say this in all sincerity, and with your best interests in mind.

Really. I believe that God wants you to get some help.[/QUOTE]

 

Of COURSE rape (legitimately reported, and legitimately prosecuted) is a black and white issue.
It's wrong.
And rapists should be castrated.

And of COURSE child pornography is a black and white issue.
It's wrong.
And child pornographers should be castrated, painfully, right before they are put to death. Same with pedophiles. And people who would ever support or vote for Rahm Emmanuel.

But abortion, in the real world, not in the fantasy world of your church and your local congregation, has a LOT of shades of gray.
You cannot honestly equate the discussion of abortion with the discussion of rape, pedophilia, child pornography, etc.
They are apples and oranges.

Allow me to go back and review my core position on abortion;
I HATE the idea of abortion.
I HATE it.
It breaks my heart.

But just like speed limits, light beer, rap music, and McDonald's hamburgers,
it is a sad fact of life out here in the real world.

 

Abortion does not break your heart or you would not be pro-abortion…you would want to protect the life in the womb. And the sad thing is….YOU DON'T.

 

You have GOT to be kidding me!!

You deleted my post? One of the most thought-provoking and intelligent posts in the history of this web-forum??

Oh man, this is so weak, and unfounded.
I cry foul.

 

churchmouse,

Dear, sweet lady. Daughter of God. I sincerely apologize for my earlier rudeness.
You can rest assured that I have been sternly-punished by the admins of this site, and I now carry a 1 Point on my permanent record.
And Lord knows I deserve it!!
I'm lucky I haven't been given worse.

Now;
Please allow me to offer you two scenarios, and I humbly beg you to read them, perchance to tell me whether you find them strictly black or white, or whether there are possibly shades of gray.

* A guy runs a restaurant/bar. His establishment offers a nice variety of like-home-cooked entrees, and the bar serves beer, wine and a small selection of liquors.
The guy hates the idea of drunk-driving, and in fact he instructs his waitress and bar man to try and cajole the keys away from anybody who has had too much to drink.
In the end though, the law prevents him from holding a gun to any patron's head who wishes to drive off after perhaps one too many beers.
He can't just give up his liquor license, his own experience shows him that unless he serves alcohol, his restaurant would go under.
The guy has too many mouths to feed, and kids to put thru college. He NEEDS the income that the family business affords him.
He has talked to the local Sheriff, and the Sheriff tells him to use his own best judgement, and that the law enforcement folks are up to their neck trying to handle the crystal meth epidemic in the County.

Is his situation black and white? If so, what would tell him to do?


* Young girl has been pressured by family members from all corners of the family tree to marry young Jim.
Young girl's family goes to a certain church, and has been going there for many, many years.
Young Jim plays bass guitar in the church band, and his family is highly respected in the community.
Young Jim and young girl have known each other since they were in kindergarten, and they are now entering their senior year of high school.
Young girl is beginning to feel cornered, and she has come to know that she doesn't really love Young Jim.
She likes him okay, but she is only 16 going on 17, and she has never been outside the County Line.
The family has it all planned out. Young girl and Young Jim will marry right after high school graduation, and someday Young Jim will inherit the family business.
He will go to college, and young girl will stay at home and raise a proper batch of kids.
Young girl is sick to her stomach each and every day, worrying that she is being compelled to do something that the church, the community, and the two families believes is the perfect thing, but she is sick with doubt and trepidation.

Is her situation black and white? If so, what would you have her do?


Thanks in advance for your thoughtful consideration of these inoffensive scenarios.




.

 

Not hard at all. We live in America and must follow the laws. Do I think Dr. Tillers killer did right? No…he should be punished, black and white.

The bar owner should follow the law or if not suffer the consequences. Do you believe in breaking the law?

I would call the police and report that someone had been drinking but was leaving the bar. You would be reporting a problem, anticipating someone breaking the law. Drug problem or not…the polices job is to protect us. They should act on your report.

The girl should not marry the kid….that one was easy. Let her parents sleep and live with him. Its her decision, her life…right? Just like you tell the pregnant women…its your pregnancy your choice to abort.

 

There are questions of unimportance….that could be considered gray.

Hey would you like a piece of chocolate cake or vanilla?

Do we go to the theme park or the water park?

 

My dear, wonderful, God-fearing woman.
You make an outlandish assumption there in that last statement.
I have only once advised a woman to have an abortion. Once, in all my 53 years on this Earth.
And I have known approximately 20+ young pregnant girls and women in my life, all of them faces with countless challenges and incredibly complex situations.
(Friends, daughters of friends, my own daughter, granddaughters of friends and family members.)

And as to your neat and simple black and white solutions:
Do you perceive no grays there? Really?

First, there is no law that compels a restaurant owner to call the cops on people who drive off with alcohol in them.
SOME States hold a restaurant or bar-owner liable if he allows a patron to get blind-drunk, and then makes no attempt to persuade them to give up their car keys.

If the restaurant owner (in this real life scenario, by the way) instructs his employees to call the cops on every person who drives off with a few beers in them, then word would get out in no time, and his clientele would drop off to nearly zero in a week flat. And the business would fold. He would incur a huge debt, and have to take a job as a cook somewhere.
He would be unable to feed his family. His kids would not be able to go to college.

As for Young Girl, I agree with you. She should not marry Young Jim.
But (and again, this was a real life scenario, drawn from the situation of a very close friend of mine back in high school) if she refuses to go along with the families and the church elders, she will suffer the wrath and possible alienation from her parents and various close family friends. Young Jim will be furious, and will make every attempt to make her feel guilty for having dashed his dreams.
She faces becoming a pariah in her own home, church, and community. She will eventually be treated as some sort of disloyal whore who clearly feels that keeping her options open is more important than family ties, church values, and earlier-made promises.

Those are a lot of grays.
Get it?

Just like abortion, and the choices a young woman must make in the 21st century in the United States.
It's never as simple as you would make it out to be.

Wonderful, gracious, and otherwise noble and wise woman that you are.






.

 

As you implied & as is defined, a "child" is "a developing human being from conception to 18 years."
Your question is not about it's human nature, but rather it's "interest" or "sense of awareness."
My response is that all life has awareness, with the ability to sense it's environment & adapt accordingly. Even a cell in a petri dish with the nucleus (which is considered the brain of the cell) taken out, demonstrates such awareness by moving toward nurishment/food & away from toxin.

A newborn baby is less aware of many things than an adult, yet we find it obviously immoral to kill a newborn baby, punishable by law.
One's "interest", conscious ability & mental capacity, generally expands as one develops - even past adulthood.
So, killing or supporting the killing of a child because it is less aware than older human life, is immoral.