The atomic bombs dropped in WW2 were unecessary.

Discussion in 'Nuclear, Chemical & Bio Weapons' started by Vegas giants, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    The 'volunteers' for that had no real choice in the matter. You should learn more about it. Try:
    Kamikaze Diaries: Reflections of Japanese Student Soldiers
    by Emiko Ohnuki-Tierney
     
  2. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    No one asked.
     
  3. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    For surrender, and on the same terms that we ultimately accepted anyway after Truman had gotten the blood fdr had been so keen on.
     
  4. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    That is NOT how the Treaty of Versailles contributed to WWII. Your education is spotty at best.
     
  5. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Look Poop, this is not some old Monty Python skit. If all you can do is cast out insults and deny something without a reason why, then just go away.
     
  6. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    If there is something you don't understand, just ask.
     
  7. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, we have another sock puppet troll on the forum... Nice.
    What, you couldn't make your point and win a debate honestly so you've decided to create a sock account to troll and derail... How original! As if we have never seen this before...
     
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  8. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    Well, anyway I sure am glad we fire bombed and nuked the hell out of Japan, killed millions of people, and burnt and broke their stuff on the path to total victory.

    Benjo man or no benjo man.
     
  9. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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  10. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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  11. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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  12. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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  13. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Yeah we did not need the bombs to get what we got anyway
     
  14. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    No dishonesty. Everything that I said is true. American bombing of Japan focused on military objectives.

    Take a close look at the dates in that article. It states that Japan first reached out to us on August 10.

    August 10 is after both A-bombs had already been dropped.

    Good grief!

    Why are you reading Holocaust denier sites that argue that the Nazis were not all that bad?

    This article is untrue. Japan made no attempt to reach out to the US for surrender talks until after both A-bombs had already been dropped.

    Japan only agreed to discuss surrender terms with us after both A-bombs had already been dropped.

    Uhhh, no. The reason we were bombing Japan was because we wanted them to surrender, and they were refusing to surrender.

    Both A-bomb targets had considerable military value. Hiroshima was a huge military center with tens of thousands of soldiers, and was the headquarters in charge of repelling our coming invasion of Kyushu.

    Nagasaki was an industrial center with massive weapons factories.

    This article is untrue. Japan did not speak to us about surrender until after both A-bombs had already been dropped.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  15. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    Admiral Nimitz and Generals LeMay, Twining, and Spaatz pushed the US government to make Tokyo the third target. And there were indications that the US government was going to do so, although the war ended before an official order to target Tokyo could be given out.

    The goal was not to kill the Emperor or the Japanese government, but to freak them out with a close-up view of a mushroom cloud and thereby scare them into surrendering.
     
  16. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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  17. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    Not only that, but they weren't even overtures. It is certainly true that we would never have accepted the offers had we received them, but Japan never even offered them in the first place.

    The first time, the very first time, that Japan started talking to the US about ending the war was after both A-bombs had already been dropped.
     
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  18. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    Those overtures did not come from the Japanese government. They came from individuals who had no connection to the Japanese government.

    The US government understood that, but pursued the contacts anyway, in the hopes that one of them would evolve into an actual contact with the Japanese government.

    When the Japanese government learned of these attempted contacts by independent third parties, they repudiated the contacts and cut them off completely.

    I think in one case the Japanese government even ordered the person attempting to make one of these contacts to kill themselves, and they did.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  19. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    They did not. Such nonsense
     
  20. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    Here are some excerpts from "Weapons for Victory: The Hiroshima Decision" by Robert James Maddox, with a link to Google Books where available:

    Page 124
    ------------
    According to the courier who delivered Admiral King's Letter stating that the first bomb was expected to be available in August, Nimitz read it and then said, "This sounds fine, but this is only February. Can't we get one sooner?" Far from opposing the bombs, after Hiroshima and Nagasaki he favored using a third on Tokyo.50
    http://books.google.com/books?id=NQHSxnDN0_gC&pg=PA124
    ------------
    50. For Nimitz's concurrence in using a third atomic bomb against Tokyo, see Commanding General 313th Bomb Wing to General Nathan Twining, August 9, 1945, and Twining to Nimitz and Spaatz confirming their discussions, same date, both in Box 24, Spaatz Papers.
    http://books.google.com/books?id=NQHSxnDN0_gC&pg=PA184
    ------------

    Page 141:
    ------------
    On August 9, Spaatz and General Nathan Twining, commander of Twentieth Air Force, urged dropping a third on Tokyo. LeMay, (who later claimed that atomic bombs "had nothing to do with the end of the war") and Admiral Nimitz concurred. Spaatz explained on the tenth that "the psychological effect on the government officials still remaining in Tokyo is more important at this time than destruction." The next day Arnold sent word to Spaatz that the recommendation was "being considered on a high level."48
    Page 141 Not Linked on Google Books
    ------------
    48. The LeMay quotation is in Alperovitz, Atomic Diplomacy, 17. For LeMay, Spaatz and Nimitz recommendation, see Commanding General 313th Bomb Wing to Twining, August 9, and Twining to Nimitz and Spaatz, same date; Spaatz quotation is from Spaatz to General Lauris Norstad (Arnold's chief of staff), August 10, and Arnold's reply is in Norstad to Spaatz, same date, all in Box 24, Spaatz Papers.
    Page 188 Not Linked on Google Books
    ------------


    Page 143:
    ------------
    There is evidence that a third bomb might have been dropped on Tokyo as Spaatz, Twining, LeMay, and Nimitz had recommended. On August 9, General Marshall had stated that if Japan did not surrender "it was only a question of days for Tokyo to suffer the effects of the new explosive." On the fourteenth, after meeting with Truman about midday, a British official accompanying the visiting Duke of Windsor reported to London that the president had "remarked sadly that he now had no alternative but to order an atomic bomb to be dropped on Tokyo."58
    http://books.google.com/books?id=NQHSxnDN0_gC&pg=PA143
    ------------
    58. Marshall's words are from O'Laughlin letter; Truman's are from Minister John Balfour to Ernest Bevin, August 14, 1945, Bevin private papers (FO 800), Public Record Office, Kew.
    Page 188 Not Linked on Google Books
    ------------
    Part of footnote 35: John Callan O'Laughlin to Herbert Hoover, August 11, PPI, Herbert Hoover Presidential Library. O'Laughlin's five-page, single-spaced letter is based on what must have been a lengthy talk with Marshall on August 9. The author is indebted to Professor Gary Clifford for providing a copy. Hereafter it will be referred to as "O'Laughlin letter."
    http://books.google.com/books?id=NQHSxnDN0_gC&pg=PA187
    ------------


    Here is an excerpt from "Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire" by Richard B. Frank:

    Page 303:
    ------------
    General Farrell and Captain Parsons had met with General Twining, Admiral Nimitz, and General Spaatz, and by the afternoon of August 9 they urged Washington to review target lists since the "effects at Trinity and Hiroshima . . . [had] far exceeded optimistic expectations." They "expressly recommended" that the next bomb be dropped in the "region of Tokyo" to achieve maximum psychological effect.
    ------------
     
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  21. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    The bloodthirsty racist fdr flatly ignored several overtures for surrender because he wanted to try out his new toy by incinerating as many civilians as he could. if a prolonged war cost more lives of American servicemen, well, he had established a disregard for American life and liberty as well by then.
     
  22. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    American propaganda and third hand at best
     
  23. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    ibid
     
  24. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps, but the question was how to defeat them if they steadfastly refused to surrender.

    Not if Japan refused to ever surrender.

    Note that a strategy of bombardment means using A-bombs alongside conventional bombs.

    That is incorrect. Japan did not reach out to us with any overtures until after both A-bombs had already been dropped.

    We didn't ask Japan to come and attack us and commit horrible atrocities.
     
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  25. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    There were no such overtures. Japan refused to discuss surrender with us until after both A-bombs had already been dropped.
     
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