The Berniephobes are wrong

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by btthegreat, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Meaning balanced budgets?

    Bernie himself still believes in balanced budgets too, but he has noticed that 90% of the nation's total household wealth ($98 trillion) is now held by the top 20% of the population, so there are some 'rich pickings' available, taxation wise.

    Certainly Bernie's proposed financial transaction tax on the parasitic financial derivates industry would raise a considerable sum of money (enough to cancel all student debt, IIRC).

    But have I mentioned MMT to you before?

    Professor Stephanie Kelton (many lectures on youtube) says, "Money doesn't grow on rich people" and in June her new book :"The Deficit Myth" will be available.

    Basic idea:
    Sovereign currency issuing governments can, via their treasury and central bank, issue the nation's currency in order to spend, without first needing to go cap in hand to the private sector (by taxing or borrowing from the private sector), SO LONG AS the resources the government wants to purchase from the private sector are available for sale (in the nation's currency)

    So now the function of taxation is reduced to controlling inflation; and the size of deficits is secondary to maintance of full employment.

    Just in case you want to consider an alternative to the neoliberal strait jacket every nation - and central bank - is grappling with currently.

    [Note: the US is lucky Trump is not a fiscal conservative; those personal and company tax cuts have maintained a level of growth (c.3%) that would not otherwise exist. And now even Rush Limbaugh doesn't believe deficits matter...]
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  2. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Donor

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    I call this "religious equivalency"
    I see it not much different to 'moral equivalency' (would you be fine burning widows
    as was the practice of Hindus, or stoning half buried women like Muslims?)
    This equivalency now promotes the idea there are alternative to science
    and alternatives to our liberal democracies and such.

    I find it amazing, this "word of man" that it spoke of the Jewish people losing their
    nation because they are not going to accept the Messiah - yet when the Gentiles
    time is fulfilled the Jews will return to their ancient home land and take it back
    with the sword. Clever men, whoever figured such things out.
     
  3. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Donor

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    Muslims in Western nations will:
    1 - have lots of kids, conversions and immigration
    2 - vote.

    Doubt they will vote to jail their own children from learning and
    teaching non-Muslims about the Koran.
     
  4. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Ah...the old "there is no alternative" (TINA) fallacy.

    Neoliberalism with capitalism, democratic socialism with capitalism, one party state capitalism (with non-private sector banks) in China, real socialism (doesn't exist),

    Communism: equal sharing of wealth: NOT a Sanders' policy (just so you know...).

    Time to chuck your ideological blinkers.....
     
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  5. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Do you?

    Or stoning adulterers to death, as prescribed in Leviticus?

    Blimey, learning about 'god' ordained barbaric bronze age practices recorded in the OT, and 'god' ordained barbaric dark-age customs recorded in the Koran has nothing to do with 'moral equivalency'.

    But an examination of both texts might reveal something of the Divine…..

    You are confusing 'moral equivalency' with scientific rectitude, and next with different political philosophies. .

    Ah.... the prophecies in the OT (not to mention Revelations in the NT).

    Well, believe them if you wish, ....but 1.5 billion Muslims don't believe them because 'god' gave Muslims a different book (and Muslims in general are more devoted to their book than are most casual christians in the 1st world. And that leaves another 3.5 billion people who are not "Peoples of the Book'. (ie christians, muslims, and Jews who only number 40 million).
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
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  6. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Did you miss the part where I said ALL RELIGIONS?

    That means NO EXCEPTIONS.
     
  7. Smartmouthwoman

    Smartmouthwoman Bless your heart Donor

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    Sounds like Bernie supporters spend lots of time studying their own navels. Maybe getting a real job would help them see the real world.

    FB_IMG_1580762632282.jpg
     
  8. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Honestly, I thought the last election was his last rodeo. He's like the energizer bunny.

    You're right though--the system is so rotten and the electorate so brainwashed in favor of fascism that he has no chance. Even if he is elected they will pull a JFK on him.
     
  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Capitalism hasn't changed. The etlites have. They have become more corrupt than they were a few decades ago.
     
  10. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Socialism is about collectivizing production. It's hard enough to expose what's wrong with socialism without people making extreme claims like you have.
     
  11. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    There you go again.
     
  12. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Propaganda Alert!
     
  13. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    In fact, the Obama administration was notorious for enabling crony capitalism. I bet you know that. ;-)
     
  14. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Conservatives who haven't noticed that communists, socialists, liberals and conservatives in power all encourage crony capitalism are not paying attention.

    “Media reports on government actions, whether debates, legislation, or regulation, almost always present them in terms of pure policy. New laws are for a specific purpose, perhaps even a noble one. But what if that isn't the real purpose of the exercise? What if politics is largely about fund-raising and moneymaking? The commercial motives of the Permanent Political Class in acting or not acting are rarely questioned and virtually never fully understood.” EXTORTION, "How Politicians Extract Your money, BuyVotes, And Line Their Own Pockets, Peter Schweizer, HMO, NY, NY, 2013. p. 2, 3.
     
  15. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Well-Known Member

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    Umm collectivised under who? You see, that's the same thing as what i was saying.

    Collectivism leads to bad management, profit loss and the end of the economy.

    The only purpose of collectivism is control.
     
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  16. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Well-Known Member

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    There i go again what?
     
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  17. jay runner

    jay runner Well-Known Member

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    The Bern says voting for him is like voting for Nelson Mandela. All a US citizen of any color has got to do is take a quick look at South Africa to see their future with the Bern.
     
  18. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member

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    Older and rural voters, ain't gonna happen. Those are the very people most susceptible to propaganda equating Bernie's platform to the old Soviet Union. As for evangelicals, few if any would be willing to vote for a jew.

    As I said, I like Bernie. He's honest. His views have been pretty steady for decades. What you see is what you get, which is something you can't say about very many politicians. But if I were working for the Trump campaign, I would have my fingers crossed that Bernie gets the nom. It would make my job so easy!
     
  19. NightOwl

    NightOwl Newly Registered

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    Fascism is a word that gets thrown around a lot by people these days and I don't think its relevant to the current situation at all. Personally, I just don't like Sanders. I think he's a crackpot with stupid ideas that will never work in the real world. The USA is too large an diverse to implement the kind of democratic socialist principles that work in small homogenous European countries. I think the DNC is terrified of the idea that a candidate like Bernie could win the nomination because the democrat base will never unite behind him.
     
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  20. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Oops. Ideology rears its ugly head. Derivatives have a place in a modern economy, and creating, using, and trading derivatives is not a "parasitic" economic activity. The way to treat derivatives: properly regulate them. Would you stop farmers from purchasing crop insurance? Why is buying and selling crop insurance a parasitic activity?
    There is zero chance Sanders could convince Congress to implement MMT. Even if MMT was a good idea, which it isn't, people won't accept anything that radical.
    We're creating overvalued asset markets like housing and stocks because we've kept interest rates low to juice demand. This is unlikely to unwind gently. Remember 2008?
     
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  21. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    By "fiscal conservative" - I mean that we should not racking up huge deficits - especially in relatively stable economic times - and on projects that are a waste of money - such as increased military spending and regime change wars.

    In 2000 - "Total" military spending - including vets and other military related spending items - was 300 Billion. After 8 years of Bush that total was over 900 Billion - and under Obama surpassed 1 Trillion.

    Had we maintained 2000 spend levels - increasing with inflation - we could have diverted 500 Billion/year x 16 years = 8 Trillion dollars to infrastructure, technology, ramping up our economy to compete in the 3rd millennium.

    Instead we threw that money down the toilet on useless regime change wars - to pad the pockets of the international financiers that own the military industrial complex and dictate domestic and foreign policy.

    We spent 3.5 Trillion on healthcare in 2017 - Total federal revenue for 2017 was 3.6 Trillion (to put in perspective how much money this is)
    It is a healthcare extortion racket - again to pad the pockets of the healthcare and insurance Oligopolies - owned by the same international financiers who own the MIC.

    Were we to adopt one of the better European systems strait across the board 1) it would cost roughly half - saving 1.7 Trillion/year and 2) everyone would have universal healthcare. There is another 8 Trillion or more down the toilet over 16 years.

    Interest on our debt is now over 500 Billion/year - and growing rapidly - again padding the pockets of these same international financiers that own the banks.
     
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  22. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    What nonsense! I worked with school teachers for years who are Bernie types. They have very "real jobs."
     
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  23. Smartmouthwoman

    Smartmouthwoman Bless your heart Donor

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    Those who can, do. Those who cant, teach. (Honorable profession, but hardly 'real world.')
     
  24. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I know you're full of it.
     
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  25. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    A trite, untrue claim. Good managers are teachers.
    I've worked in and out of teaching. You have no idea what you're talking about.
     
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