The bible is written in such a way

You know God? Why would you turn from Him and oppose His message?

Is it possible that you did not, 'know' God, but only had a mental assent to somebody else's definition?

It seems unlikely to me that one who has met the living God could easily turn from the path and choose enmity toward Him. It does happen, but it is rare..

 

So you cannot, or will not define 'good!', in a godless, amoral universe, but deflect with personalities..

 

I don't understand your response to my post. Are you saying Jesus did not tell his followers to hate their families per Luke 14:26? I quote the Bible and you make a comment about bigotry, hostility, phony caricatures????

 

So instead of actually addressing the problem with your asinine circular logic you are stuck in it and cannot escape from it because it is all you have.

Given that you have now established that you do NOT have a sound logical and reasonable basis for your imaginary friend there is nothing to be gained by wasting time going around in circles.

 

God of the gaps fallacy duly noted and ignored for risible reasons.

 

Why are you making the world amoral.

 

How do you define 'good' in a godfilled world? Each god has his own definition. First you have to find which god you like best and adhere to his idea of 'good'.
We're not talking about some hypothetical world where only one god exists. We're talking about this world.

 

And who has met the living God? There are many stories, Biblical and not, but no actual proof. No-one knows God. . All we have are mental images formed by man's mind over the millenia. Hence the many different religions.

 

I offer this thread as evidence for my observation. It is filled, not with respectful discussion about the bible, but ridicule, mocking, shock jock bigotry, and disdain.

You promoted a phony caricature, so i lumped you in with the others. If yours was a sincere question, and not just 'gotcha!' bait, then my criticism was misapplied.. If, perhaps, you have a sincere question, could you rephrase it so it does not have the look and feel of mocking from a religious bigot?

You make it amoral, if you remove any moral imbedding agent.

In a God made universe, there MIGHT be universal directives, or a 'conscience', and a sense of universal morality. That is what i observe, in the annals of humanity. Yes, there are man made rules, in every society, but there are core values that transcend race, time, geography and culture.

In a godless universe, the can be no universal moral directives, and they ALL are just human inventions, to manipulate people.

You are not aware of the many people, over the millennia, that have claimed an encounter with God or the supernatural? You can dismiss their testimony as 'unbelievable!', or 'contrived!', if you wish.. but the sheer volume tells me that 'something' is there (or Someone), and not every testimony is a manipulation or delusion.

Personal testimony is evidence, in any courtroom. What you do with it is up to you.

IMO, there is a 'hole', or 'lack', in every human, that only reconciliation with the Creator can remedy. Some people deny this emptiness, others drown it with chemicals or amusements. But it is there, common to humanity, calling the lost man to return home.

Wouldn't it be fantastic if you could actually know and meet God? If there is a God, could that be possible?

 

If there is a God,

You are not going to find him in a book.

 

What's his message?
Remember, jews, christians, and muslims have this same god of the OT. They all have a different message. My guess is you also think there is a different message.

No one has met god.

 

I bet almost everyone has heard of people in contact with some unseen being. I bet most everyone has heard about people being contacted by aliens in some flying object.

Are both true?

 

I have no need to.
The dictionaries do a GOOD job of doing that.
good
[good]
See more synonyms for good on Thesaurus.com
adjective, bet·ter, best.

1. morally excellent; virtuous; righteous; pious:a good man.
2. satisfactory in quality, quantity, or degree:a good teacher; good health.
3. of high quality; excellent.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/good

After you're done deflecting, is Ghandi good?
I am quite sure you will not answer again.

 

Have you noticed how 'miracles' have become 'rarer' as science has progressed, As we have understood more the workings of the brain. As we have more ingenious 'magicians'. There were 'magicians' in the Bible - Simon the
sorcerer.
I've seen churches split by 2 very devout Christians who each received a prophecy about the church from 'god'. Unfortunately the prophecies conflicted. Voices in the head are not very well received today and visions are unfortunately seen by one person. There are things we do not understand, but there's no reason to believe they are supernatural.
The ancient Greeks were at a loss to explain why the planet Mars started to reverse its course and then zigzag. The answer they worked out actually didn't fit. Copernicus 2000 years later discovered why.
How does the brain work? Have you noticed that things that are not compatible in normal life can be made compatible in dreams? Who knows what the brain is capable of.
Have you presented testimony. of voices in your head lately in court? Or of miracles?

 

The only reason people think they are the same God, is because they know nothing of at least 2 of those religions

Anyone who knows Christianity fairly well,
And knows Islam fairly well, will swear they are not the same god.
Totally different rules,
and what can send you to heaven in one,
can send you to hell in the other.

 

They are based on the same god - as is Christianity. Christianity and Islam have adapted the OT to form their religions. Judaism itself used an ancient god and some beliefs from other religions.

 

In theory, however as they changed hands, the rules changed drastically, to the point of them being different beings altogether.

IE. A Christian, if they learn about Islam, will deny their god completely, as something some warlord made up.

 

You can change the rules with impunity for any god. It's just the way you want that god to be. Mohammed wanted Yahweh to be acceptable to his people, so he created Allah from Jahweh. Christianity has added Jesus, Gods son, to there beliefs. Though I wonder what he really believed in his rambling rants in the Qu'ran. Yes. I have read it.

 

Actually Muhammeds God was ArRamon,
He made that God when he combined all the Gods of the Kab'ba into one.
Allah shows up over halfway through the Qur'an, except for a 4 line prayer preceding every chapter.
( Keep in mind the Qur'an is 9th century, but that is Islam 102, and we will stay off of it.


Allah, and many combinations with different spelling and pronunciationwas used by lots of religions in the area for God.

In Clasical Arabic,
Ilah means God

Allah is God's name.

 

How did Yahweh, the God of the Hebrews and the God of the armies, convince the desert Arabs to worship him?

 

When Muhammed took the God, he took it in name only.
He changed everyone into Muslims, Yes Adam, Moses, Abraham, Jesus, Everyone was Muslims before Muslims existed.
Now they prostrate themselves, praying 5 times a day, Shia 3 times.The God rejected the Jews and Christians because they didn't accept the new ways, and now God wants them dead.
The Jews and Christians still pray to their original god, and I have to laugh when a Jew or Christian says it is the same god.

 

So Islam doesn't really have a god.
Using the name of my friend's father doesn't make me his son, however much I may like him. Neither do I have a history by using the family history. Without my own father's name I'm a bastard.

 

A God is something you have to believe in, you need faith,
so you can invent anything, and if you really believe it, it is your God.
Islam's God is not the same one as the Christians and Jews.

 

All of those definitions imply a moral Imbedder, of the esteemed values. The relativity of 'good', in a godless universe, makes any appeals to 'be good!', a human manipulation.. a construct to control people's behavior for some human agenda. That is all 'morality!' can be, in a godless universe, and pretending to have morals and purpose is delusional.

The fact that so many atheists respond with, 'we're moral! We have purpose and meaning for our existence!', belies their stated beliefs.. they become what they accuse theists of: needing a crutch.. unable to face the hard reality of an amoral, meaningless universe, they make it up and pretend their lives have significance.

If theists live deluded lives of fantasy for believing in a crutch God, how are these atheists any different? Why pretend 'morality!' and 'meaning!' when that worldview has no place for such platitudes?

If Gandhi used his tactics when the muslims invaded India a thousand years before, his life would have been much shorter. History would have labeled him a weak fool, for not fighting the muslim invaders. Charles Martel did not use passive appeasement to repel them, and neither did the Indians. Ghandi's tactics for political change could only work in the western, civilized culture based on Enlightenment and reformed values. Would Attila have conceded to Gandhi? Viking looters? Spanish inquisitors?

The byzantines, coptics, and many other tribes and peoples fell to the conquering hordes, as has happened throughout history. Were 'good!' men able to deter the barbaric invaders, with calm words of peace and reason?

You should concentrate on your own arguments, rather than try to predict or define mine. 'Gandhi!' is a deflection, and does not provide a basis for universal morality and purpose, in a godless universe.

 

You can believe, explain and understand the world we live in anyway you want. If atheistic naturalism works for you, fine. Enjoy your beliefs, and follow their conclusions and implications.

Everyone has to do their own believing, and their own dying.

But there is a danger in complacent ignorance. Just because you disbelieve, does not make it so. Just because you have not experienced God and the supernatural does not make it unreal. Your lack of experience with the supernatural realm only exposes your own limitations. You are not omniscient, imbued with infinite knowledge and awareness.

You can view the world through an atheistic naturalism filter, but that will not change Reality. Reality does not care about our mental masturbations, or justifications. It is just There, waiting for seekers of Truth to discover.