The Bible

That's a rather modern concept, isn't it.

Christian orthodoxy has been defined and imposed by those with power from the time of Constantine (and including Constantine) until religious plurality was imposed on the American states.

It's not really between the individual and God if the "wrong" decision means you get tortured by the Holy Roman Empire or the target of religious war in England, or exiled by Constantine or "converted" by King Stephen I, etc., etc.

On the more peaceful side, religion has a very clear tendency to be inherited through the diligent work of parents.

 

Which you only believe thanks to reformation of Christianity by very secular ideas, like classical liberalism and scientific enlightenment. Had your genetic accident instead resulted in you being born in medievil Europe, you would be singing a different tune....yet would have been holding the exact same songbook...

 

I'm going to regurgitate a statement made in one of the videos I posted here.

I'll walk you through the long version of "Do I deserve eternal torture?"

I'm a non-believer. According to your god, non-believers deserve eternal torture. Do you agree with your god that I deserve eternal torture?

Saying "It's not up to me" is evading the question because you don't want to be caught defending the indefensible.

 

Imo Jefferson was a Deist.

 

You can't. Nobody knows if Hitler is going to hell or not. Nobody knows if St. Francis of Assissi is going to heaven or not.

 

It is hardly indefensible. It is quite logical, if you follow the assumptions.

1. God created all things, including man.
2. Man was created in purity and perfection, in harmony with God and the universe.
3. Man rebelled against God, in spite of a warning of death.
4. Death has been the norm for man since. Eternal death, however it is described, is our destiny.

But, i am not God, nor even an advisor or close associate. It is not my call, whom God forgives, and whom He condemns.

If you are talking about biblical principles, you should establish them AS biblical, and not 'extra-biblical'.

And IF... we are to premise God, then He is everyone's God. That is clearly a biblical concept.

And if.. people you disagree with 'deserve' your disdain and ridicule, how is it a stretch to see hostile, hate filled, enemies of God NOT 'deserving eternal torture?'

 

Exactly. He was not a Christian, and had issues with some biblical themes. But he was not anti-christian.

From that post:
"I picked thes quotes for a reason.. none of these famous, influential Americans were Christians. They saw the wisdom and virtue of biblical precepts as positives for a society, and were admirers of the bible and Christianity, as a beacon of Truth, Freedom, and Civilization.

Contrast that now, to the anti-christian sentiment that pervades the culture. Instead of esteeming the bible, Jesus, and Christian principles, they are mocked, distorted, caricatured, and despised."

 

But we cannot prove that God is the Yahweh from the Hebrew Scriptures because these days we don't see miracles the way they are described in the Hebrew Scriptures.

And the reason they deserve disdain and ridicule is because they hold elitist beliefs and an us versus them world view. Atheists don't claim they are the chosen ones who are to enjoy the best gifts of this world or the world hereafter. And do we REALLY deserve eternal torture for mocking assertions of which cannot be proven?

 

You obviously don't know what "far right" is. Trump isn't even that conservative. I would suggest not assuming anyone much to the right of Mao is "far right."

 

You control what your family believes?

 

HAHAHAHHAAAAAAA!!!!!

Funny!

 

Who told you that laughing is a legit response?

One of the big reasons for the Never Trump attitude among many Republicans is that Trump isn't that conservative. Some even called him a liberal. Clearly, you're confused about what a conservative is.

 

For you to suggest that Dump is a liberal is even more laughable.

 

Again, if you do not believe in a religion, then why do you care what that religion claims? The only way a religious penalty concerns you is if you believe that religion. And since it clearly concerns you, then you must in some way believe that religion.

 

People abuse religion, just like they abuse nationalism and racial identity and economic status. Because a Catholic Pope used religion as his excuse to start a war and enrich himself does not automatically invalidate that religion. There is nothing in the New Testament that validates something like the Spanish Inquisition.

You have to go to the defining source of the religion, and for Christianity that is the New Testament. A fundamental aspect of Christianity is that it is voluntary and defines a relationship between the individual and God. That is not a modern concept, its straight from the New Testament writings. The entire concept of the Holy Spirit and conversion and accepting Jesus is an individual act. Throughout the New Testament, believers are told to pray and be charitable quietly, the motivation should not be for earthly rewards or gratitude for those actions, but to do them to glorify God - because the relationship is between the individual and God.

 

Wrong. The defining documents of Christianity are the New Testament writings, some of these written documents are dated to the 1st and 3rd century, long before "classical liberalism and scientific enlightenment".

 

Who is trying to prove anything about God? Not me. This is about the bible, which tells us a lot about the BIBLICAL concept of God, but that is all.

For you to trump up false accusations toward the Christian members here is very dishonest.. especially as a lame excuse to justify your bigotry toward them.

You can mock and ridicule all you want.. and justify it with 'They deserve it!', with some trumped up imaginary offenses.

I have not seen ANYONE do as you accuse.. pretend elite superiority and condemn you for anything.. so why the phony narrative about how you have to defend yourself from these evil xtians?

 

Somebody telling me with 100% certainty that there is only ONE way for salvation (accept Jesus/Yeshua as your savior) and they have found it and I must take it is elitist in my book. Especially if that way is claimed to be found in a very flawed document called The Bible and they cannot prove it in any way. They may believe they are doing me a service by preaching, but they know full well that they won't reach everyone. That's still elitism. There is the minority who accept 'The Gift' and there are those that do not.

All of them from door to door types like JWs and more mainstream street preachers like Ray Comfort deserve my mockery. That's one thing I forgot to add. If Christians don't preach to non-Christians, then I WILL keep my beliefs to myself since it goes both ways. I won't stand before a church yelling abuse at parishioners in their Sunday best walking into the building. But I will to those who attempt to tell me the "Good News" outside their place of worship.

They are not to be threatened with physical violence or have their places of worship shut down. But they are to be called out for how ridiculous their beliefs are.

 

Because I happen to being a discussion about it, first of all, and second because a lot of people DO care and DO believe that nonsense, and they wield political power.

Come on man, you really need to puzzle some of this stuff our for yourself.

 

This time you bring up a real issue - people wielding political power to impose their personal beliefs on everyone else. I absolutely oppose using govt power to force beliefs on others. That's why I oppose "progressivism", the Democrat party agenda, the RINO agenda, a "living Constitution", accomodation laws, the "war on drugs", and a host of other activities.

But that is the first time you mentioned political power. All your other complaints have been about individuals talking, nothing more.

 

No you don't, and i am not breathing any life into your attempt at distraction. The problem I brought up isn't that government enforces ideas, but which ideas they enforce and by what argument the ideas gain this traction. Unable to make a good argument for why we should enforce things "because my favorite god says so", you instead retreat to this unqualified, overly general, dishonest position.

I believe child rape is wrong. Oh look, the government is enforcing that belief. Boy, that must really bother you!



Spare me these weak charlatan's tactis...I am immune to them...

 

No it isn't,and clearly the complaint has been an intellectual one about making threats, not "just talking". You just really aren't capable of having an honest discussion about this.

And this is because the magical nonsense in question is of a type you prefer. And for literally no other reason.

 

the Bible and the Quran have the most believers for sure, but is that because both groups punished, ostracized or killed non-believers in the past... or cause people said, duh, that makes sense of course I believe it?

 

sure, as an example..... had it not been for the theocracy, our ancestors may not of fled to the America's to find freedom from religious rule

many also came here on a convert or kill mission to change the native Americans, that did not go so well for the Indians

I much prefer our secular government to a theocracy

 

Me too. I don't want any ideology controlling our human institutions, and using their power to compel belief in their worldview.