The Chinese have a jet to match F-22

China tests its second 5th-generation stolen stealth fighter
21.05.2012
China has recently tested its second fifth-generation stealth fighter J-20. The tests were conducted in the middle of May in the city of Chengdu - an administrative center of China's Sichuan province in the south-west. The photos of the prototype of the aircraft in the air inundated Chinese blogs and soon appeared in Western blogs, The Daily Mail wrote.

For the first time, the J-20 Mighty Dragon was tested in January 2011. The news about the tests leaked on the Chinese internet. The authorities confirmed the information only several days afterwards.

Specialists say that the J-20 will make competition to the US-made F-22 Raptor. This aircraft is the world's only fifth-generation stealth fighter that has been passed into service. Moreover, Western specialists say that the Chinese fighter bears a striking resemblance to the American jet.

It is generally believed that the Chinese obtained certain state-of-the-art aviation technologies, including stealth, by stealing them from the USA or Russia. It also seems suspicious that China built the aircraft and started its tests too quickly. Chinese officials originally said that the new jet would appear as early as in 2017. US specialists thought that the Chinese stealth fighter would appear some time in 2020 or even later.

Print version Font Size Send to friendThe Chinese may have copied the stealth technology from the US-made F-117 aircraft that crashed in Serbia in 1999. They probably bought the fragments of the plane from local farmers.

It goes without saying that the Chinese strongly reject the information that says that the new stealth fighter was built on the base of other countries' technologies. Chinese officials can only say that it is the achievement of their designers and engineers. A Chinese test pilot said, for example, that some parameters of the J-20 marked a technological breakthrough for the country.

At the same time, China's J-20 is outfitted with Russian engines, Wired said. Therefore, China will not be able to launch the serial production of the new aircraft until it develops its own analogue of the engines.

However, the creation of the Chinese fighter jet on the base of the anti-radar technology and other military developments of the Celestial Empire raise serious concerns with the Americans. They believe that China spent up to $180 billion on defense last year. The amount considerably exceeds the officially announced defense budget for the current year - $106 billion.

Washington is concerned about serious competition, especially against the background of the problems with the F-22 Raptor. US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta has recently ordered to restrict the exploitation of the nation's most expensive fighter after it was revealed that the pilots of the plane receive slow poisoning due to defects in the onboard system of oxygen generation.

In addition, China's growing power raises concerns with the Pentagon in light of the Taiwan-related problem. The Republicans have recently voted for the USA to sell 66 F-16 jets to Taiwan to add to the modernization plans for the Taiwanese Air Force. The Obama administration has blocked the sales of new aircraft not to aggravate the situation.

In the meantime, Taiwan can be involved in smuggling US technologies to China. In April, two US-based citizens of Taiwan were arrested for their intention to purchase drones, the stealth technology and anti-aircraft systems. It was said that they were going to sell them to Beijing afterwards, Americaru.com reports.

The peculiar feature that differs a fifth-generation aircraft from its predecessor is simple. All information is processed and analyzed by the onboard computer system before it is displayed to pilot. Such a plane is super maneuverable. It is also capable of flying at supersonic speed without the activation of the afterburner. Such features can be achieved owing to state-of-the-art engines.

The exploitation of a fifth-generation fighter jet is supposed to be cheaper. For example, the cost of one hour of the exploitation of the fourth-generation Su-27 fighter jet makes up $10,000, whereas for a fifth-generation jet the cost is much lower - up to $1,500.

A fifth-generation fighter jet must be nearly invisible in all physical fields. However, critics say that "invisibility" of high-tech aircraft is only a myth. To detect an enemy, a plane has to use a radar, which immediately gives its location. In addition, air defense technologies have been developing along with the stealth technology. State-of-the-art radars can "see" a lot farther and better than they could before. As a matter of fact, it only goes about lower visibility.

http://english.pravda.ru/world/asia/21-05-2012/121187-china_fifth_generation-0/

 

Thank you. I've never laughed so hard at an article in my life. No, it does not bear any resemblance to the -22. Unless you think a Hyundai Sonata is the same car as a Cadillac CTS. We've also discussed this topic ad nauseam, sorry that you're a year late.

 

they stole the plans to the F-22 and the F-35. if this turns out like their other counterfeits, they better get genuine ejection seats.

 

I hope they copied the OBOGS.

 

hehehehehe

 

Hey, there is enough hybrid technology in this plane to make it compatible with all the armies in the world, a standardization level even F-22 cannot match.

 

We don't want the -22 to be compatible with any other military force. So, good.

 

This is not even a "plane" yet, this is a prototype.

And as usual for most Chinese pojects, it will be replaced by 3 more prototypes before it ever sees production.

 

Or scrapped altogether.

 

Oh no, they will build a hundred or so before they scrap it.

If you look at their tanks, it is almost a joke. China must field 15-20 different tank models over the last 30 years, each one claimed at the time to be the "best in the world". Then they build a new "best" model, make a hundred or so of them, then go on to the next one.

I am glad I am not in charge of maintenance in the Chinese military. I imagine it is a real nightmare, having to sort out all the parts for that many models of tanks. We settled on the M1 decades ago, and simply improve that one model. That is the only tank in our inventory, other then a handfull of M60s still in reserve units, used for testing purposes (like those modified to M60-2000 models), and used in some locations primarily for OPFOR (last I heard, Fort Irwin still uses some, modified to resemble Soviet tanks).

 

Well, if it gets past the prototype stage, it and similar projects will make it tough to sell the ageing F-16s and F-18s to third partners.

 

While the F-16 general design is getting old, the avionics on them through constant upgrades are still first rate.

And you can't compare this aircraft or the F-16 with the F/A-18. Neither of the other 2 are naval aircraft designed to operate off of aircraft carriers. Different aircraft, different missions.

 

Wonder if the Chinese are havin' these kinda problems with their stealth fighter?...

More problems for F-22 beyond mysterious oxygen loss issue
July 16th, 2012 : Two recent in-flight emergencies involving troubled oxygen systems in the F-22 "Raptor" are unrelated to other, more worrisome breathing problems pilots have experienced for more than a year when flying the plane, according to U.S. Air Force officials.

 

I think its quite pre-mature to jump on the Chinese bandwagon. Anyone can take a fiero frame and built a ferari around it, but they are not going to call it a ferari, because it is not a ferari. All we know is that the Chinese have an aircraft that looks like it can compete with an F-22. We don't know its capabilities. What kind of avionics does it have? How manuverable is this aircraft and can it structually withstand the kind of manuvers the F-22 can? These are questions we do not have the answers to. We know most of these answers for the F-22.

 

To the drive-by China fanboys, this does not matter. Every other day they are in here praising Chinese Technology to the sky moon and stars.

It does not matter that China has serious problems in actually delivering anything. It does not matter that they spend decades working on "prototypes", never quite seeming to deliver a finished project. That they will give press releases praising their new equipment years before it even takes to the air for the first time.

I take Chinese military claims with a grain of salt. A grain of salt the size of a double decker London bus.

 

How many issues have there been with the F22 and F35!? We in the west have no idea how far advanced Chinas Military technology is - It is all based on opinion... and I think we should be very careful when scrutinising others Military Megaprojects!

Plus, China have almost certainly got much more than the J20 up their sleeve.

 

Please, we know pretty much everything about it, because China makes it a point to tell the world. Even years before they even have a working production model.

When it comes to military equipment, China is about the most transparent country in the world. They make every announcement like it is major news, and hold press conferences constantly. They praise it to the sun-moon and stars, even before the first prototype is even completed.

Then you have the fact that they rarely ever get past the prototype stage. Their list of military equipment is full of projects that are developed, prototyped, tested, then replaced with a new prototype model before the first even hits production. A view at their tank models shows this for over 30 years. As does their Air Force.

J-7 (MiG-21 copy), J-8 (a MiG-21 copy), J-9 (yet another MiG-21 copy), J-10 (MiG-21 copy), J-11 (Su-27 copy). And these are the ones that have made it all the way to the final testing and deployment stage. Every 5 years or so they make the claim of having the "best fighter in the world", bragging to the world what they have and what it can do. All while it is still on the drawing board. Then they make a few hundred, and start on the very next project, saying that it is even better then the last one.

THis is why a great many of us who know how military R&D take these claims very susipciously. And even though each one is marketed to the Third World as a fighter for export, so far the only exports were a few hundred J-7s (which is an exact copy of the MiG-21). Pakistan has an order for 36 J-10s, which will not even start delivery until the end of the year at the soonest (I can go into the blown timeline of aircraft produced in China if needed).

Oh, and to show what I mean, China has already anounced and started development of the F60/J21 fighter. So the J20 once again is more then likely a perpetual protortpe, and will be replaced by the F60/J21 before it is ever finished.

 

Dem fancy Russian missiles sold round the world gonna shoot down those fancy planes anyway so we had best be developing more drones !

 

Errrr, yea. Right.

I am not even gonna go there. But consider how many of those have been fired at US aircraft over the last 2 decades, and how many aircraft were actually brought down.

Statement refuted.

 

None of the new Russian technology has been fired at a US aircraft .. no worries.. even the old stuff was able to bring down a "stealthy" US F117 over Serbia in 1999 using an "innovation to update our 1960's vintage SAM's" http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-10-26-serb-stealth_x.htm

LOL ..If modified 1960's technology can take out one of the most sophisticated planes in existence..

Good luck against a real opponent.

Ya .. real refutation there mush.

 

No secret here. First off, let's discuss the common misconception in regards to 'stealth".

Now this is a mantra I find myself repeating over and over again, because people simply can't seem to grasp it. Stealth is not Invisible.

Stealth is not Invisible.

We and other countries have been able to track "stealth" aircraft for years. Stealth works not because RADAR can't see it, but because it gets a very low return. Normally to low for missiles to lock on. And the RADAR in a missile is nowhere near as powerfull or sophisticated as that in a ground system. And they also use systems to channel and cool the exhaust, making it harder for a heat seaking missile to track them.

As you know, for the last 5 years my job has been Air Defense. And regularly when scanning, we have seen and tracked F-117s, B-2s and F-35s. About a year ago we were able to track F-22s doing combat runs. These aircraft are not invisible to air defense radars, just simply hard to get a firm lock onto them. Sure, we could fire at the "fuzzy" contacts, but then what would we do if we fire all of our missiles at this target, and then a real serious threat like a bomber appears? Ask them to wait until we reload because we wasted 25 missiles firing at a fuzzy ghost?

Over Coratia, they used essentially the same technique that the Soviets used to bring down the U-2 in 1960. Fire a huge number of missiles, knowing that rhe more missiles they fire, the greater the odds that one of them will hit. In that case, they fired 8 surface to air missiles, and one of them even brought down one of their own MiG-21s. Another was even directed to ram the U-2, but was unable to catch it.

You have to admit, that is an almost insane amount of effort to be put into bringing down a single aircraft.

Af for the F-117, it was a combination of huge numbers of missiles, and catching the aircraft as the bomb doors were open, when it is most visible. In total it is estimated that they fired a total of 15 SA-3 missiles, and one of them happened to catch it right after it opened it's bomb doors, as the payload was getting final instructions from the targeting laser. And the aircraft was spotted and tracked visually.

Nothing can totally defeat "stealth" technology. The Serbians fired hundreds of missiles at F-117s during the bombing campaign. And they brought down a single aircraft. You can fire hundreds of arrows at birds flying overhead. Odds are that 99 times you will hit nothing, but occasionally you will get lucky and hit something.

First, I suggest you take some time to actually know and understand how Air Defense systems work. Then go and learn how stealth actually works.

And to give an idea, an F-117 would have a good chance of escaping a ground based system, like PATRIOT (using the example of a top line US system). But then if you fly the same F-117 against Naval variant like the AEGIS system, it would be lucky to get within firing range. This is because the AEGIS system is much larger, and has a RADAR of significantly greater power (and missiles of higher speed, greater range and more power). Ground based systems are almost universally portable, which is a great compromise between size and power. Naval variants (and the very rare permanent ground based systems) do not have this problem, and can have a RADAR of almost unlimited power and size. Their only limits are generally the curve of the Earth (sometimes), unlike the 20-100 miles of most ground based systems.

 

I appreciate the detailed response however, I still stand by my assertion that the fighters have not been tested against the latest Russian technology.

The article also states that there were quite a few planes that were hit. Considering the outdated technology the Serbs were using I am suprised they hit anything.

Our planes have yet to be tested from anything but archaeic technology.

 

Didn't Russia steal the Concorde and produce the Concordski?

I wonder what happened to that? I believe they are still digging up parts of them all over the place.

 

Yes, because they have to update it with all the other designs that the United States outsources to them regularly, when developing new technology, to keep the US operating expenses low and profit margins high.

 

And what is "new technology"?

Are you aware that Missile and Air Defense has not significantly changed in over 30 years? The PATRIOT missile we use now is only a modification over that which was originally fielded in 1980. And the most advanced "state of the art" Russian system is not much better (The S-300, an upgrade to the S-200 and S-100).

And the SA-3 is hardly an "obsolete piece of junk". Yes, the basic missile has been around for almost 50 years. But it has been significantly upgraded since then, and other then the actual body, the current missile has little in common with the original one. And the RADAR in use now has pretty much nothing in common with the original RADAR. No more then the RADAR in use for the NIKE program does with that for THAAD.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.