The end of the world order as we know it

Nice response, care to back it up? I guess not. Have you been to Russia? Ukraine? I have. Many times to both. How about the promise that NATO would not move 1 inch to the east of Germany in exchange for German reunification?

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-...on-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

 

You mean some Ukrainians.

 

~ I believe that most who are paying attention know the answer .

 

No doubt. I would not be surprised if you were born in Russia.
The Soviet Union lost the Cold War and dissolved. Russia inherited no geopolitical considerations.
The formerly captive states of eastern Europe sought NATO and EU membership.

 

No, Ukrainians.

 

Once again, nobody gives a **** about who's in the EU. NATO, on the other hand, is a different story. NATO's sole function was to act as a counterbalance to the Soviet Union. The USSR is gone and so should be NATO. The EU and NATO have turned into the Soviet Union.

There's a lot of things that would surprise you, like the truth.

 

Glib epithets don't represent the complexity of the situation, with respect.It's far from a united country.

American military families have the right to see their children grow old as well. Think Ukrainians give a s*** about them?

 

Yes, the Ukrainians do. And Ukraine is as united as most countries.

 

They've literally been in a civil war for the last 8 years. You call that 'united'?

 

US restraint on NATO expansion was part of an attempt to support the continued existence of the Soviet Union. When Russians themselves dismantled the Soviet Union those considerations went by the board. Russian behavior since the demise of the Soviet Union provides more than enough justification for a strong NATO.

 

Take out the Russian meddling and the civil war ends.

 

And btw, I'm from a multi-generation military family.

 

Kiss any American and British troops goodbye. It's only the fault of your kind of thinking that has brought it to this.

Strong NATO? **** NATO. NATO is a money-laundering welfare scheme meant to enrich a select few and the expense of American lives.

 

Just more Russian propaganda.

 

~ I believe that the original intention of NATO was to prevent another world war.

 

How about try "Yugoslavian propaganda". Oh yeah, that's right, it was destroyed by the 'only defensive' NATO.

Here, let me help with your next 50 replies:

 

Which should be respected.

I worked for an NGO that has tried to help Ukraine a lot. It's like filling a bucket with holes with water. I don't think this is the time and place for anecdotes, but they have the mentality of children. You really can't believe anything they say.

So allegedly, you have some experience, and allegedly, I have some experience. These little details don't hit the media and you don't really know the country until you've worked in it.

 

I spent time in the Balkans during the 90's. The Serbs got what they deserved.

 

If you can't believe anything they say you either don't understand the country or you don't know the right people.
Usually the complaint that the locals "have the mentality of children" is based on an inability or disinclination to understand their mentality.

 

It's shorthand for they are not a mature bunch. You don't seem to be saying anything about Ukranians yourself, yet are confident about what they deserve (including American lives to be sacrificed for them)


In my opinion they need to follow a step by step process to becoming part of the EU, not just materially, but psychologically. Giving them NATO membership is like throwing the keys to the Porsche to a 15 year old. And that's not even including the fact that they are enmeshed with Russia, whether the West likes this is not.

 

Somebody that actually knows something about Ukraine.

Somebody that....doesn't.

 

That's swell. Were you by chance there to oversee the poisoning of Slobodan Milosevic in prison or to erect the Bill Clinton statue in 'Kosovo'?

 

The only reason I see that someone would want nato disband is because they want to see the rise of Russia.

 

One country I am not convinced in that is a part of NATO is Germany. They have never truly been tested as an ally. I think they’re also showing their true colors on Ukraine.

 

You forgot Turkey. Turkey in NATO makes it obvious NATO is a joke.