The Irish, the Italians, the Polish, the German...Made it!

All were socially persecuted, but they all made it in America...And helped make America a heaven and very powerful.

What is missing with the sons of slaves?

Why is there a Detroit? S. Chicago? East NY?

We'd be in the 22nd century...Education wise if we didn't have the burden.

 

BECAUSE
All groups strive to become Middle Class.
Education leads to better jobs leads to better home ownership, etc.
When Ron Karanga et al designed American Black Culture, complete with Kwanzaa, they intentionally rejected the American Middle Class concept for a more "Black Experience".
So "they" implemented a cultural deficiency that maintains ghetto populations as opposed to middle class aspirations. Of course if one can leap over the middle class such as athletes, actors, etc. Bravo. They move out.

Consider the Martin family of Trayvon fame.
After 40 years, some 2 generations of special opportunities - educationally, employment, advancement etc.
they remain in the ghetto and speak of a "cracker".

Your question should be a challenge to Obama, Sharpton, Jackson, etc. to remove those self imposed barriers Black culture places on mainstreaming to the middle class.


Moi

 

Because they are white. When the children of the immigrants became "Americanized", they stopped focusing in on different ethnicities and started focusing in on skin color. Even before that, all you had to do was become nationalized and educated to succede. No really cared as much as to where you were from, if you knew what you were talking about. You also have to look at the jobs that the immigrants got. These were jobs in factories. Jobs that eventually became good paying jobs. African Americans, no matter how educated you became, you were still tied down by race. The jobs, were not the best, and often jobs that didn't get those pay increases or become middle class jobs.

 

Ah - - - what of the Asians ? Latinos ? Native Americans if they chose to leave the ghetto / reservation.
The color excuse holds no water no more.
It is just an excuse for a cultural short coming of not embracing middle class values and aspirations.
How many times have we read of the "good black kid" in a ghetto getting assaulted or killed because they aspired to something better then the ghetto.

When I went to Medical School, 25% of my class was Educational Opportunities students.
One had even achieved special admission before at another school and dropped out.
The job preferences. The university and scholarship preferences for some forty years.
When is it the Black community's responsibility?
Enough of bleeding heart liberals already. Your programs these last forty years have failed miserably.

Moi

 

Yeah, Yeah, they only made it 'cause they is white!

And you know what, they made it by walking on the back of the Blacks Mannnn...

Why, they wouldn't have noth'in it weren't for the Black people they done took it from!

Why they don't deserve any the things they've got! They stole it from US, we should have the govmnt take it all back!



... * sigh... and so it goes.

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Yes, it does. When you discriminated against an entire ethnicity for a long time, you can't make that up in 40, 50 years. The example I like to give is Russia. Even though Alexander II freed the serfs in 1860, when 1917 rolled around the majority of Russian society was made up of Boyars and the poor, with a tiny middle class emerging.

When instead of benfitting lower/ middle class African Americans, it benefits the poor it will work. But it will also end when people stop looking it as race, and instead focus in on it being poor.

Oh just so you know I'm not getting notifications for this thread, so if I don't respond that's why.

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What? Most people didn't own slaves. They certainly took economic and social advantage over them, but other than that, nada.

 

The offspring of Chinese, Japanese, and Indian immigrants have done well, too.

 

Consider the Vietnamese and the Koreans who often came here with nothing but their clothes at the end of failed wars, where a large segment of the population saw the enemy in their faces, and did not want to be reminded of the embarrassment of the lost wars.

They are not only succeeding, they are exemplary in almost every way, particularly in academics and honoring Law and Order.

I have two daughters, and both are now happily married, but back in the day, I would have been proud and relieved to see them dating most Asian guys.

Isn't that the acid-test? Say what you want about being Liberal and open-minded, but when your daughter comes home with some gloomy guy in a Mohawk, Earrings, and bad attitude, your teeth grind!

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Israel is kind of just that, and they turned a desert into a metropolis... while Democrats turned a metropolis into the Eastern Bloc.

Another Example? The Chinese in Malaysia.

Ethnic Chinese Malays tried to lead a Maoist revolution there in the 1950's, and they were brutally repressed, with entire villages of theirs moved around to keep them ill-supplied, confused, and starving.

Today, ethnic Malays still hold the power, and set laws to give advantage to other ethnic Malays... yet the average ethnic Chinese still earns twice the income of the average ethnic Malays. This despite that 50 years ago, they were losers in a f*cking civil war. Chinaman, I salute you.

And really, it's not unprecedented, the Chinese seem to outperform wealth wise any ethnicity they live next to, except in China.

African Americans used to be highly productive, enough so that they fixed their illiteracy is nearly a generation (historically unprecedented for any race), and were demanded enough to have lower rates of Unemployment in the early 20th century than white men... but something changed in the 1950's-60's, and they're now among the bottom.

 

That's not true. The Jews have been 'held down' by racial prejudice for longer than blacks, but the Jews have always had success. Why? Because they've always been educated, as a group.

The great gap is purely education, not race. College-educated women working in the same fields as men with the same experience make slightly more, and college-educated black couples make more than college-educated white couples. The only real difference is in education, which is why Asians and Jews as groups outperform Hispanics, Blacks, and Whites.

This is all understood by the intelligent proponents of affirmative action, but what I don't understand is why they're okay with thinking about citizens as masses of groups and not individuals. Affirmative action only works by denying equal opportunity to members of a 'group' that happens to be the majority, which (contrary to the "white privilege" propaganda) holds no inherent benefits.

 

Blacks because of their treatment in this country were second class and mostly poor citizens in the 60s when things began to change and get better for them. Unfortunately at that time they were caught up in the War on Poverty net, a trap that people of all races have been unable to escape. Whites who were poor then have had a lot of welfare descendants too. The majority actually. Sweden has the same cyclical dependency issues with the people who have been on welfare there, and that is why the black community is behind their counterparts who arrived with full legal status or a decent resemblance of it decades if not a century prior. Welfare kills neighborhoods, kills social mobility, and takes a lot of lives too by creating hopeless and violent communities. You know, Democrat run towns.

 

I have read several threads here on this subject. Why......oh why......have black Americans been unable to prosper in this land of opportunity? Why...oh why.....are the African countries all so undeveloped? Why......oh why?

How about an answer? Why not SAY WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY, folks? Why couch your dopey theories in "concern troll" questions?

 

Free immigrants had a different path in American society than freed slaves or the descendants of freed slaves. The Irish in particular were well established in the north-east before African-Americans from the south come up to the industrialised region looking for work. And the Irish in particular were extremely violent in attacking African-Americans whom they saw as a threat to them in terms of competing for jobs. In the south of course racial repression on a less violent (I'm generalising here) basis continued but it was more institutionalised and therefore was a part of society rather than an expression of hostility from other ethnic groupings.

Anyway, ask yourself why the US armed forces in the Second World War were segregated. You might get a clue from that.

 

African countries have historically been colonised which means they were treated as resources for imperialist nations. Their colonisation was to provide needed goods for the imperialist nations and because they were colonised they became markets for goods from the imperialist nations. Simple really.

Most African nations got out from under colonial status during or after the Second World War, some not until the 1950s. Places like the Congo were not even owned by governments but by individuals. It takes a while to shake off the effects of colonialism.

 

The answer is blindingly obvious. The combination of the legacy of a slave-evolved culture, lingering strong racism (Irish and Germans and so forth could join the U.S. Army and fight basically when they stepped off the boat, but blacks had to fight like crazy to gain that "privilege") and the acquiesence of both black and white elites in allowing what is basically an almost completely separate black subculture in America (much more so than normal immigrant subcultures).

 

Let me rephrase, when you don't do anything to help them out, that's when they're all on their own. The civil rights movement focused mainly on the south, and the welfare programs didn't go far enough. By only giving them the right to vote, and not touching the social/ economic landscape is what doomed the civil rights movement from becoming anything.The jobs you mentioned, five bucks says those were the jobs that couldn't actually get you anywhere in life. I'm willing to bet those jobs, mainly would have been sharecropping. Sharecropping didn't get them anywhere at all.

 

As James Baldwin pointed out, competing groups need someone to be 'above', to convince themselves they've got somewhere. That is the function of those cousins of other Americans who can be identified as 'black'. It is just as sick a heap of smelly old bilge as it was when he pointed to it.

 

That's not entirely true either. America has always been racist, but that doesn't mean every race is the same. For example, Irish were treated as a disease in America in the 1840's, but Germans were seen as hard workers. Jews, in an expanding market economy with a long tradition dating back to the Middle Ages of merchants and bankers were good. Remember, most Americans would have been protestant, more so Calvinist leaning. Making money is a good thing, and so Jews despite the notion they were weak, could deal with money very well.

I'm going to ask for a source for that claim, but yeah education makes a difference in people's lives.

Personally I think if we're going to do Affirmative Action, it needs to be on socio-economic grounds.

 

The people of Singapore are ethnically Cantonese Chinese (very different from the Han people from northern and central China) and are distinctly NOT MALAYS. Call a Singaporean a Malay and he'll be doing his Bruce Lee imitation on you.

The Cantonese Chinese are called "the Jews of the Orient." Like the Jews they prize education and hard work. As a result they tend to economically dominate wherever they go, and as natural merchants they migrate everywhere. They did not get along with the Malays, whom the Cantonese Chinese view as lazy and stupid. In the 60s, both sides were smart enough to separate themselves and Singapore became independent of Malaysia. In the PI, Cantonese Chinese dominate the economy of the island of Luzon, and that is the cause of intense friction there. (The rest of the PI are 100%Malay and are economic backwaters.)

Cantonese Chinese have done well in the US. Same old formula: solid families, education, and hard work.

Why have African-Americans not figured this out? Slavery ended a century and a half ago.

 

not longer than 'black' jews

jews used to be black until the conversion of whites in the caucuses, so jewish whites have only been persecuted 1000 years whereas 'black' jews' have been persecuted for 3,000 years

the truth is, that jewish people had success because they were the same race as the founding fathers in america.

 

Until the 1950's Jews were heavily discriminated against in the U.S. Many communities had laws that prohibited them from purchasing or owning land in large parts of those communities. Many deeds had restrictions against that land being sold to Jews, Negros or Asians. These laws were in force through the early 1970's in many parts of the country. Ever hear of the Catskill Mt.'s resorts, mostly jewish, why, because jews were not allowed in the resorts of new england nor were they allowed to rent rooms in most decent hotels in most cities. In the east, there are a number of very exclusive Jewish country clubs, why, because the country clubs of the DuPont's, Rascob's, Rockefellers, would not admit Jews. Anti-semitism was very widespread in the U.S. The KKK of teh 1920's was just as anti-Jew as it was anti-Black.

 

Gee, let's examine them: All have of the above, you mentioned, have a core family and strong work ethics.

The 'ghetto' black male can care less... Take the gov't 'cheese' and impregnate as many women as he can.

 

America a heaven?

lol

 

Do you actually equate what those immigrants experienced as Americans with chattel slavery (Black Americans), genocide (Native Americans) and subsequent disenfranchisement (as history clearly reveals)?

If you cannot see where you are wrong... this isn't worth discussing with you.

 

You are correct.

And in this era of mass MASS COMMUNICATIONS (and Google, etc.)... I'm certain it is a damned shame that you would really have to explain that to ANYONE with enough sense to make it onto the internet (much less find and participate within this forum).

Such 'idiots' and willfully-ignorant Americans as you just had to explain that to, aren't getting much from me these days except my contempt.

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It's clear that an education does not make everyone 'smart' or 'reasonable'.