The Irish, the Italians, the Polish, the German...Made it!

Why did they enslave 'blacks' and not say..the Irish?

 

Blacks could vote prior to Women.

What is 'That' telling us?

 

never seen a black woman?

 

Sure...until the Federal troops pulled out of Dixie. Then from 1920 to the early 60s, white women, if they were German, Polish, Irish, or Italian... could vote....

black men and black women in a big chunk of the US could not.

 

Comparing blacks to white ethnics or Asians completely ignores how racism and economic exploitation put blacks on the bottom and still keeps them there.

When people talk about Asians as the model minority think about their small numbers compared to blacks. If huge numbers of Asians had migrated to America in the 19th century and kept coming I wonder if things would have worked out so well knowing how racism and xenophobia were so widespread among whites.

 

The Irish, and the Scotts, while practicing long standing clan feuds with each other, would not help in the enslavement of other Irish or Scotts.

The opposite happened in Africa, where most the slaves who boarded ships bound for the Americas were actually captured and brought the the coastal port by other rival African Tribes.

-

 

Othervoice
I live in Orange County, California, a mecca for all sorts of Asians.
There were the Vietnamese who came wearing the face of the enemy and we did not like them coming here don'tchyknow. Now there is Little Saigon in Garden Grove. General Ky had a liquor store in Huntington Beach, near Garden Grove. Unlike General Ky, most came with nothing. Today they are something and most have integrated from Little Saigon to surrounding cities such as Irvine, Newport Beach, Anaheim, Tustin, etc.
With their success came Chinese and Koreans too.
We don't have much of a Black population in "The O.C.", a traditional Latino population and over the last decades a new Asian population now integrated, professional - and some of their own grocery stores

As far as the 19th century Asians.
They were denied citizenship. After populations were scattered around the west from rail road construction and mining, many States expropriated their land and kicked them out. Even those who obtained citizenship because citizenship became nullified to the "yellow race". American citizenship was for only the White and Black races. If you were a Chinese person you were suddenly forbidden to live in Montana or where ever. They generally moved back to California.
Have you heard the expression regarding a "Chinaman's chance"?
Which Asians are you speaking of or did I miss your point?

Black people, and especially post Civil Rights Black people have a "cultural deficiency" of NOT aiming for a middle class life and values. Education, better job, better home neighborhood, etc. It was by "their" design. Those who designed "Black Culture" along with Kwanzaa. Ron Karanga et al.
The question is whether this cultural deficiency has a genetic basis.

Moi

 

Why aren't Blacks making it? I'll tell you exactly why, but Liberals won't like it. Because to many children are being raised without fathers. Over 80% of Black women are having children and are not married. .There isn't a father to help guide these kids. They grow up getting in gangs and getting in trouble. Try getting a decent job with a rap sheet. My one grandson tried and couldn't do it. So after three years of being out of prison for stealing a car and wrecking it and dropping out of school, he finally realized he needed a trade to ever have a chance. He is now going to heating and air conditioning school. Most Blacks won't do that.

Blacks will never get ahead as a group until they try and keep the family structure together. Until they stay in school and get a good education. Until they stay out of gangs and keep off of drugs. The rate Black women are having children and not married, the rate of Black dropouts and the rate of crime committed by Blacks is way to high. Liberals and Black leaders are doing very little to change that. These are the reasons the Blacks have not made it and they never will unless these issues are addressed and changed.

 

Thank you for your response.....

I am familiar with some aspects of social history and Chinese immigration on the Pacific Coast. However I am not so convinced that a lot of whites would be comfortable or receptive if the Vietnamese or Chinese made up 25 to 60 % of the population and were a strong political force.

You speak as if there was no educated black middle class. Blacks do not suffer from any genetic deficiency. Do poor whites ? You cannot dismiss certain behaviors among low income blacks but that does not mean racism is gone. Lets not get into what massive wealth and income inequality is doing to all working people regardless of race.

 

In short, race based double standards that allow and support bad, self-destructive behaviors.

The KKK could not have done to Black Communities what Liberalism has done over the last 45 years.

-

 

Oh I assure you back in the day when the Vietnamese where coming over,
they were not appreciated, to say the least or put it mildly. They were buying up the place. How?
In many cases the government was giving them preferential hiring. I know because my aunt worked for the post office and complained of having to weed out those who could not read or write English.
Today I do not believe anyone cares so much. Certainly one or a few might
but popular social non Vietnamese culture had to become accepting and has from a very negative attitude.

Black people and Black Culture could accomplish the same if they decided to.
The problem is their ongoing resistance to mainstreaming in the middle class. Acting white, as they say.

Moi


Good flick and historical
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100774/

 

Outstanding post.

But, how can they mentor their young? Many don't know who their 'fathers' are and they don't believe in education... Only Nike sneakers. I travelled and lived throughout Africa and saw the same traits. Truly 'the White Man's Burden'

 

Back in the mid-80s a kid who came from Vietnam as a "boat person" graduated as the valedictorian of the ultra-competitive Air Force Academy.

Wonder how many times he heard "gook," "slope," or "dink?"

Now they call him Colonel. Sir.

 

A small percentage, but not all. Remember, the internment camps were in fact a west coast thing. The 442nd was almost all Japanese Americans. When the war ended, they may have lost property, but they still had knowledge. Many were owners of successful businesses beforehand. They had experience, and thus even though racial tensions were growing against Asian Americans in general, they still had an education to fall back on.

And they're still not economically as strong as the west.

Dawes Severality Act- 1960's. Native Americans became the most oppressed group. Even after having to give up their culture in return for one that was supposed to make them hardworking, they still are the poorest of all the groups.

Equal jobs, equal pay. That doesn't happen all the time, leading to this problem. And yes, you can measure discrimination by comparing it to the past, and seeing how much freedom everyone is getting. If everyone is supposed to have equal rights, and somehow they're being discriminated against, you can see that easily.

Yeah, because when you discriminate against an entire ethnicity due to their race, and deny them an education and working rights, they're going to be poorer overall. And there is no such thing as a bad culture. Cultures don't do anything wrong for long periods of time, because they don't work.

1. What time do you think Sharecropping was most dominate in the south, and made a historical impact?
2. Welfare, is just another name for subsidizes. We give out all sorts of subsidizes all the time for business. Are you going to say that businesses aren't productive?

From your source:
"However, the present Russian Germans usually speak only Russian, are assimilated into Russian culture,"

These are not German anymore. They're Russian. They're not some foreign culture trying to stay alive, they're part of Russian culture. They don't see themselves as German, they see themselves as Russian. Japanese in South America. Taking a guess but small in number, and educated. They got jobs that served their specialities. South America isn't a rich area of the world, so chances are wasn't any serious job compeition to spring cultural resentment. They are probably just in some part of SA where the common man doesn't even notice their existence. Now as for the Chinese, there goes a saying. "Starving peasants don't start revolutions." The Chinese would have been educated, wealthy, and simply resented what the bulk of the population was doing. When they lost, they simply picked up the pieces in a third world country, where education is going to be rare.

You have to get this notion of somehow there's a superior culture out of your head. It's not real. It's something that people came up with long ago to justify their racism. It's how a different society choice to live, based upon what was effecting them at the time. When the US won the Mexican-American war, Mexico became in debt, fell victim to foreign invasions. After Benito Juarez, there was no strong tradition of democracy, so when Diaz came into power, he could take power without anyone challenging him. Until 1910 when someone did. That resulted in a 10 year struggle known as the Mexican Revolution. Afterwards the PRI ruled, in a semi-democracy. It's not a less productive culture, if anything Mexicans revolutionaries were able to scrounge and were tougher then their American counterparts, it's just what the current state of the world is in.

Poor African Americans are productive, just in their own way. Now yeah, there are a lot of things that are leading to a cycle of poverty. Poor schools, lack of unemployment oppuritnities, lack of sexual education is another one. Breaking the cycle is simply giving them a chance to do so.

 

We're talking the average. Average wise, they beat all, and it's because they culturally are more productive, depsite what was thrown at them, including denial of citizenship.

Given time, that will soon change. They're growing faster than the west.

Again, to solve this involves breaking up the current trusts, and emphasizing fee-simple. If you do that, they'll prosper, as Native Americans already under the Fee-simple system have no problem keeping pace with all other Americans. Or once again, those off the reservations altogether.

Nor should it, the view that it should be just demonstrates poor knowledge of demographic choice differences. Women are paid less, because they make different choices. And they aren't the only ones.

No, women can earn more now because, per family, they're earning enough wealth to hire nannies for their kids, so they can go off themselves to further their own careers. It's a trend quite like that in the 19th century that lead to women coming into the work force to begin with.

You're talking in rhetoric, not specific terms. There is no measure for discrimination, rather, it is invoked when the person doing the study stops including other contributing factors, likely because they didn't realize those factors existed.

But you know how I know there's no discrimination? Because women who never had children, are beyond child rearing-age, and are college-educated, earn, on average, $7,000 more than men in the same position. They've caught up.

Your own statistics rely on comparing Mothers/wives, who intentionally seek less-than-optimal opportunities. And that's why they're irrelevant.

No one "denied" anyone anything. African-Americans have bad schools, because current administrations and unthinking Public Unions made them bad. Thomas Sowell's family moved to Harlem, NY from South Carolina so he and his siblings could go to the Elementary and High schools there. This was in the 1940s. Today, the High School from his home town in South Carolina completely outperforms the one in Harlem, despite the one in Harlem having given Sowell the English training he needed to enter Harvard, and at a level superior to many of his peers.

Didn't say there was, but I' am saying there are trade-offs, and some cultures are simply more productive than others, the trade off perhaps being, they're less close.

Many aren't, yes. We should end subsidies, because you should never give money, unearned, to entities that should be answerable to Supply & Demand. You destroy wealth that way, you don't create it.

If you are giving money to a business, they had better be rendering some sort of service or product in return.

Ah, but i wasn't speaking to the present, I was speaking to those who many-wised moved to the U.S. midwest from the late 19h century to the 1930's, and were indistinguishable from other German immigrants. Because they didn't speak Russian

Look to "Decline of the Russian Germans" in the article to see a bit of what I'm talking about.

... Brazil is a bigger economy than Russia. They have a middle class that lives quite on par with any western nation you can mention.

Except, I first heard this case from Thomas Sowell. Whose is black. And he's not trying to make African-Americans look good, rather he points out, as I have, that something about them degraded after the 1960's. And he feels he knows why, would be great if you gave him a listen.

 

It's not culturally more productive, it's education. Most of them are simply getting a good education here, or at home. Asian Americans are the largest incoming immingrant group, so that makes sense. It's not that they have a better culture, it's simply they have education to fall back on and capital to invest in.

Only because of the EU's interference and more laissez faire economics. They're not doing it because they have a better culture, it's simple politics and the desire for these countries to be part of the EU.

We're not talking about solving. We're talking about the effects. You can't change history. Also, do you know what the Dawes severality act did? It was fee simple. And it failed, miserably. The education was a joke, and when you ignore them for nearly 50 years, you're going to find yourself having a hard time simply getting them to change.

Equal jobs, implies that two sperate jobs are equal, in all terms. When someone gets one of those jobs, and another person gets the same job, they are by default paid the same. Women in the same jobs not being paid as much, that's an actual problem I'm focusing on. I'm not arguing overall right here, I'm focusing in on those jobs in particular.

No, it wasn't nannies. It was public education making sure there kids were in school, and preschools. Women were expected to take care of a kid, even to this day. Taking care of a kid is hard. Unless you're doing your job at home, you won't be able to look after a baby as well as work full time. That economically restrains women. That's why women in Europe right now wait until they're secured job wise to have a family.

So you just admitted there is a way to measure discrimination?

So basically a minority of women, not representing the whole.

How is talking about the majority of women irrelevant?

So you mean to tell me a family that had the economic background to move, was able to? But we're going to ignore the fact that people stay for other economic reasons as well. Now, I'm not here to argue about why public schools aren't doing as well anymore. I'm here to say what the bulk of people are getting. Poor African Americans are being denied education, because they can't do much about it.

In other words, you're saying there is a better culture.

We have been giving out subsidizes for business, pretty much since the start of the US. We're one of the world's largest economies, and have been for the last 100 years. Why do you say businesses aren't productive?

Well then mention that. And to answer that. A lot of poor people were able to move to the US due to the lack of immigration laws and the relatively cheap ticket cost. Once again, not cultural. Cultural aspects sure, but it's a not a cultural thing, it boils down to economics.

Now I'm not getting your argument. Even if they moved to the US, they assimilated into American culture.

Brazil doesn't encompass all of SA now does it?

[/QUOTE]Except, I first heard this case from Thomas Sowell. Whose is black. And he's not trying to make African-Americans look good, rather he points out, as I have, that something about them degraded after the 1960's. And he feels he knows why, would be great if you gave him a listen.[/QUOTE]

I heard some of that, and what he said made some sense, and I did generally agree, but it's not just not culture that makes a person successful. It's a lot of variables as well, making culture less important than say education.

 

A tale of successful assimilation.

In the First World War there was a German general named Von Francois (with the French pronunciation).

His forebears were Huguenots and fled France to Prussia. By the time of Frederick the Great, they were Junkers. Hence the "Von." Given the historic enmity, I'd say that was a good job of assimilation.

Why can't black Americans assimilate that well?

 

Maybe they dont want to, ever thought of that?

 

Well first off, the Germans, Italians, Polish, etc. didn't come to America under the conditions that slaves came.

Also these folks were mainstreamed into American life simply because they are white also.

 

U R correct... Much easier to be a SLAVE of the Demo Party.

 

Neither party is mine, not the Jackass or the Elephant.

 

That's part of it for sure, but is that so much the case now? Look at asians in this country. They are wealthier on average than white people. And culture plays a big part in it. I am not saying that blacks are lazy or some nonsense like that. A lot of the problems were caused by discrimination, which blacks felt more than any other group. I just think the picture is bigger than that.

 

lol

why do ppl here think we gotta be affiliated with one non-representative party or another, no individualism, I guess america has destroyed the creative mind of its ppl.

 

The most dangerous myth, Racial Equality

http://blacksuninvictus.org/equality.html

 

When Afrikans were crafting meticulous platinum and gold refinements to emboss the glorious human body and sculpting immaculate temples of dwelling and meditation all over the globe, europeans were eating grass and dusting down their caves and corners.

tru story bro. Ever read the good book? thats a testament and no celtic fake and im a celt, I just respect my ancestors.