The "Lancet" about hydroxychloroquine

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by LafayetteBis, May 23, 2020.

  1. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,951
    Likes Received:
    826
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    France bans hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for Covid-19 ...
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8361269/France-bans-hydroxychloroquine...
    2 hours ago · France has cancelled a decree allowing hydroxychloroquine to be used as a treatment for coronavirus after studies showed it increased death rates in patients. It comes after Donald Trump


    Republican response; "Well obviously, France's ulterior motive is to sabotage Trump's re-election. No more French baguette on my dinette.
     
    Sallyally likes this.
  2. NightOwl

    NightOwl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes Received:
    1,212
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Please explain what you assume I lied about or you will be reported.
     
  3. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,031
    Likes Received:
    2,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I beg you pardon? What are you talking about. Are you ignoring what I said which was that if you look at the Limitations which the Lancet put on that study, they made it clear it could not be seen as judgement of the drug.

    [/quote]

    It may be convincing and of course if WHO are saying it even more but you cannot get away with the reality that the countries which have been using it as an antiviral, giving it early and with Zinc have the lowest deaths. It does not kill their people. They of course have found the need to say they will be working to make sure there is no problems while continuing to use it and pointing out that they do not use it in the way in which this testing was going on.

    hydroxychloroquine, given early to act as an antiviral and given with zinc has proven success - not just a lot but a hell of a lot.

    Now what you are relying on was an observation done by the lancet which did not say at what stage the drug was given nor whether it was given with Zinc. Further it was an observation in which the Lancet honestly put in the Limitations of the work as being that it could not judge the effectiveness of it. Given that I know that in countries which use it at the early stage and with Zinc have a very low death count there is clearly something fishy going on here. I believe the French Dr who has been using this for God knows how long with success is beinging to find this less than funny. He believes some sort of 'hoax' is being played out.

    The reality is give hydroxychloroquine when the patients position is getting worse, sometimes needing a ventilator and the success rate appears to be Nil or possibly even worse. This appears to be what the Lancet was observing. As they correctly noted from what they observed they could not make a judgement on whether hydroxychloroquine was effective for Covid 19. The could only report what they observed.

    Give a person hydroxychloroquine as soon as you know they are infected and we start playing a different ball game.

    Give it without Zinc and you will have a death toll twice what you would have had had you given it with zinc.

    Working together hydroxychloroquine and Zinc given very early have shown themselves to massively reduce the death toll from Covid 19 from countries which do this and the French Doctor who has been doing it.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
    petef56 likes this.
  4. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    17,367
    Likes Received:
    4,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It was nothing to do with the drugs. You might just as well said they took lettuce leaves and recovered within a week
     
  5. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    11,829
    Likes Received:
    7,479
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Since trump can't write a prescription, he can't get it right or wrong. Even those who can write a prescription admit they are practicing and can only give an opinion.
     
  6. NightOwl

    NightOwl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes Received:
    1,212
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm just relaying first hand info from people whom I trust that have tested positive and were able to mitigate the effects. You can choose to believe im a liar if you want but I'm going to take the meds if I do contract the virus and follow the same successful treatment regimen as my doctor, his nursing staff and the members of their respective families have, and quite successfully I might add.
     
  7. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    8,481
    Likes Received:
    1,692
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    More one-liner garbage in an otherwise decent debate-forum ...
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
  8. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    11,829
    Likes Received:
    7,479
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It was a 2 liner and 100% true. If it is garbage, you should have no trouble refuting it. Were you unaware of the numerous class action lawsuits against pharm companies for damage caused by products deemed "safe and effective" by the FDA? 100% were prescribed by medical professionals. What say you?
     
  9. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    21,219
    Likes Received:
    13,509
    Trophy Points:
    113

    He promoted the use of this drug constantly. Is this fact beyond you somehow? If you don't know this then you clearly have no business posting at all.
     
  10. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    8,481
    Likes Received:
    1,692
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    BUT, SUPER-RICH?

    Donald Dork has been seriously sick (in the head) since a very early age. His father got so upset with him that he put "Donald" into a military school. Within a month, the other cadets wanted to throw him out a window. Which is what I read from a story that appeared in publication. So, take that one for what it's worth.

    He is, no doubt, and intelligent man. His mental misbehaviour does not affect his mental acuity. He thinks he is a "self-made man" - which has become the idol of many American males. (As well as more and more American females.) This super-rich idolism promotes the sort of selfish accumulation of wealth that should not exist in the US. Rich, yes - we cannot avoid the key human factor of personal success, which drives many people (male and female).

    But super-rich?
    No, we-the-sheeple don't need that at all. And, of course, as regards "self-made" the $20M inheritance from daddy to his children certainly helped them mightily "along their way". (Uncle Sam has a lot of Work-Barely-In-Progress regarding upper-income taxation - but that is another subject for another day.)

    Nevertheless, for what it's worth, here below is the explanation of why DT is sick, sick, sick in the head from Psychology Today: Why Is the Trump Presidency of Extreme Psychological Interest?

    Excerpt:
    OK, that's enough to get started. If the rest interests you then read on ...
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
    Sallyally likes this.
  11. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    8,481
    Likes Received:
    1,692
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The above I wrote without much understanding of the family history in which Trump was born. It might be well worth the effort, if interested, in reading the article on Mrs.Elizabeth Trump who was also singularly responsible for building much of the Trump fortune (after her husband died).

    Here: Elizabeth Christ Trump (the self-made woman)

    Read on ...
     
    Sallyally likes this.
  12. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,031
    Likes Received:
    2,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    OK some more information has come out about this supposed study which is making the Lancet not look good.



    I do like that the below man has been forced to acknowledge that we have been having some very shoddy recent work going on particularly referring to the Lancet Study. He is a retired nurse and also has a PHD. He is open when he does disagree with things and able to acknowledge when he makes mistakes but he has tended to have an ingrained trust of what were trusted institutions like the Lancet. The other day he was certain it must be right because it came from the Lancet. He now acknowledges that he was wrong and that we have been being given false information. He explains how research is done to try to offer lay people some ability to know when they can trust it.

     
  13. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    11,829
    Likes Received:
    7,479
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nice mini-meltdown, but try responding to what I posted.
     
  14. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    11,272
    Likes Received:
    19,962
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    An interesting bloke.
     
  15. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,031
    Likes Received:
    2,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Not sure which of them you are talking about.. If you listen to the first one he outlines in detail the flaws in the supposed report strongly suggesting with evidence that this appears to be a false report. Earlier we had a similarly false report under the name of Stanford.

    In the second video Campbell acknowledges that the reports which are coming out regarding HLC appear tainted and do not follow professional standards which he had come to rely on all his life.

    This is not something which we would expect in this day and age or maybe it is. I am guessing both Stanford and the Lancet did not appreciate what they were supporting and would again point out that in the limitations the Lancet said this could not be taken to be a report on the effectiveness of HLC - but that of course is not how it has been taken.

    Long before anyone said HLC was dangerous I knew it was helping people but only if given early acting as an antiviral. Its relationship with Zinc was I seem to remember also being spoken about before Trump said anything and it became dangerous. It is quite crazy, It works if given early - arguments given that it should be given very early - that it should be given before people become so ill they need to go to hospital and could be available to all unless there are contra indications.....but tests are done the very opposite way - tests are done on people as a last resort - it never would work for that as its whole point is stopping the virus getting to that point and in order to do that it must be given early..

    Campbell originally did not look at the material believing that given it had the Lancet's name, it must come up to top scientific regulations. When he was alerted that this was not so and decided to look at it, he discovered this was not so.

    Thyere are some strange things going on.
     
  16. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    11,272
    Likes Received:
    19,962
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I meant Dr Nurse Campbell.
     
  17. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,031
    Likes Received:
    2,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Dr comes from him having a PHD. So saying an interesting bloke says little. What are you referring to?

    Here is another Dr who gives medical lectures on the net. They are good I have watched one or two all the way through. He says however that he gives all of his patients HLC,the A antibiotic and Zinc as soon as he suspects they have it and so far not one person aged between 22 I think and 67 has had to go into hospital. He also points out that Turkey has a very low death toll and Turkey does this as well. The countries who use the combination early all have low death tolls.

    You should look at the other video I left above Campbells. The lancet 'observation' is worth nothing. As he illustrates in the video above Campbells and as the Dr says in one below the Lancet 'observation' claim to be unable to provide evidence for what they are claiming. I did a social science degree. About the first thing I learnt was that you could use statistics to prove almost anything you wanted...but that 'observation' takes it to another level.

    From 40 mins.



    Just ask yourself this. Why when people claim they are getting results on HLC, when giving it very early and with the A antibiotic and Zinc, do people from the West claim they can prove it is no good to people in the later stages and try and use that to say it is not successful even dangerous when used at the time and in the way which has been shown time and again to be successful. Why not at least test it there. Simple answer because it works there and they do not want to show that.

    More and more people who are not Trump supporters believe this is a political game and it is one which is costing lives - and a lot of money.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  18. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    11,272
    Likes Received:
    19,962
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Turkey’s death toll figures have been questioned.
     
  19. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    11,272
    Likes Received:
    19,962
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Dr Been Com is a vitamin nut.
     
  20. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    Messages:
    21,859
    Likes Received:
    13,608
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And now, since this drug is essentially useless in the US, Trump can send it off and con a bunch of Brazilians...

    Best of luck down there, guys... remember.... Trump didn't take this drug.... you shouldn't either..

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-sends-2-million-doses-unproven-virus-drug-204939080.html
     
    Sallyally likes this.
  21. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    26,396
    Likes Received:
    7,982
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    God himself came down and said Hydroxyquine was ineffective and Trump is a lying POS. I wonder how much George Soros had to pay off God.
     
    Sallyally likes this.
  22. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    11,818
    Likes Received:
    3,227
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Some people think the Lancet study is fubar.

    Covid-19 study on hydroxychloroquine use questioned by 120 researchers and medical professionals

    “There was no ethics review,” the letter continues. “There was no mention of the countries or hospitals that contributed to the data source and no acknowledgments to their contributions. A request to the authors for information on the contributing centres was denied. Data from Australia are not compatible with government reports. Surgisphere have since stated this was an error of classification of one hospital from Asia. This indicates the need for further error checking throughout the database.”

    The letter also states that the data from Africa in the study indicates that nearly 25% of all Covid-19 cases and 40% of all deaths in the continent occurred in Surgisphere-associated hospitals which had sophisticated electronic patient data recording, and patient monitoring. “Both the numbers of cases and deaths, and the detailed data collection, seem unlikely,” the letter says.

    The letter also expressed concern about unusually small reported variances in baseline variables, interventions and outcomes between continents, despite significant differences in demographics.




    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...estioned-by-researchers-medical-professionals
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
    alexa likes this.
  23. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,031
    Likes Received:
    2,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Well so did I until I heard they were using the HLC combination and that also goes for several other countries Clearly if this is a result of the HLC combination it says a lot.. China's death figures are also questioned possibly with good reason but they were giving it long before any French Dr had trumps ears. Obviously your death rate depends on how well you did the initial stage of testing, tracking and isolating as well as wearing masks and it would appear giving HLC with zinc and possibly the A antibiotic and lastly if needed how soon you begin a lockdown and start the above things. I do not know if you are aware that trials had shown that HLC was effective against the other Sars virus's. I think they ended before it was put into operation but obviously it makes sense that that is why both South Korea and China and I imagine others in the region started with it straight away. South Korea used HLC which I think is safer. China used chloroquine.

    I do not understand why we, the West were so uppity that we did not seek information with those who have plenty of experience of dealing with this kind of virus.

    When Trump initially praised it and people said trials were needed I was surprised given that it had been being used successfully.

    Sure there should be proper tests done. There has not been any of them done yet and they should be on using it where it has been shown to be effective as an anti viral early on to stop the disease progression where the person does not have contraindications

    There is no question that something is going on as people/organisations we would not expect are acting unprofessionally. It either is a definite attempt to tar Trump as an idiot though there is already plenty of evidence of that. Possibly because it is so cheap and seemingly unless there are contraindications so effective that some people just could not stand Trump being able to recommend a known treatment for the virus which can turn the whole situation around and make it manageable, save lives and a whole lot of money on hospital services and lockdowns. The only other reason I can think of is a desire to use the R drug which at best lets the virus take a little less time but is extremely expensive.

    Some people are raising the possibility that with the internet we are entering a place where it can be possible for us to be manipulated to the extent that the idea of any free choice will be gone. Where machines will 'manage us'. This has been shown by programs which can pick up about 5,000 details about you in a minute or two. Having done this they can give you information which they know will entice you to support what they want. This seems to be a bit like that.

    What has been getting me is how easy the people of the US appear to be to manipulate and it seems to have something to do with the two party divide. Republicans hate the Democrats while Democrats hate the Republicans - though as far as I can see they both do much the same. Sure the GDP may be heading for fascism but people believe so are the Democrats - that at base their 'leaders' have the same interest...but here is the thing. The argument has not been Does HLC the A antibiotic and Zinc help with Covid19 as it was seen at least in a test tube to do with others Sars virus and as has been used in both south korea and China who both have very low deaths. That is what the issue ought to have been. It was known that this was likely to act as an antiviral as tests had already shown it acted in this way with Sars 1 and China had a very low death toll - this alone threw everyone off balance making them think it was not a particularly lethal virus and could be easily death with - until they saw what it did in Italy. How we have seen things progress is instead of proper medical investigations A dr finds something good about the combination. The hard Right GDP publishes it so now the Dr becomes a Trump supporter and anyone who follows him becomes a Trump supporter and no one is looking honestly into something which could help us so much.

    We have a virus which has caused lockdowns, where a lot of people have lost their jobs, their lives and a lot of younger people may find their future one of disability due to having had the virus. If HLC works with Zinc and the A antibiotic it could make a massive change in how Covid-19 is seen . We could manage it. ...But the public were not even informed. Instead it became about Trump and as is the way in the US because this had happened the Rep supporters believed it was good and the Democratic Supporters believed it was bad and that rather than how good it is at acting against Covid=19 is what has been going on. Quietly someone is winning but it looks to be that the rest of us are losing.
     
  24. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,031
    Likes Received:
    2,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Can you give me some evidence to verify this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  25. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,031
    Likes Received:
    2,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female

    I see you have no argument.
     

Share This Page