The Nazi and the Atheist

A thought experiment.

We have Adolf Hitler, who was Catholic, he killed six million Jews.
We have an atheist, who is a successful humanitarian, he helps millions of people.
Who goes to heaven? Who goes to hell?


We have Adolf Hitler, who was Catholic, he killed six million Jews.
We have an atheist, who is a successful humanitarian, he helps millions of people.
Hitler shoots the atheist, the atheist dies.
Who goes to heaven? Who goes to hell?


We have Adolf Hitler, who was Catholic, he killed six million Jews.
We have an atheist, who is a successful humanitarian, he helps millions of people.
Hitler shoots the atheist, the atheist dies.
Then shoots and kills himself.
Who goes to heaven? Who goes to hell?


We have Adolf Hitler, who was Catholic, he killed six million Jews.
We have an atheist, who is a successful humanitarian, he helps millions of people.
The atheist shoots Hitler, Hitler dies.
Who goes to heaven? Who goes to hell?

 

This doesn't really adress the questions but it needs to be said: Adolf Hitler may have publicly professed Catholicism, but even I don't believe he was sincere about it.

 

I really don't care. I am much more interested in what the answer to the questions is, rather than a debate of what thoughts went through his head on April 3rd, 1940 at 10:37pm.

 

Lots of potential here.

A Catholic might say, that if Hitler confessed to his sin before he died, he would go to heaven- the atheist no. The Atheist might be going to hell or to Purgatory.

A Protestant would probably say that neither of them are going to heaven, and they are both going to hell.

Me? I think Hitler is in his own hell, regardless of theology.

 

Warning! Warning! Warning! Possible No True Scotsman approaching!

 

It is a good illustration of the immorality of third-party forgiveness doctine.

To use a more geekly example, did Darth Vader, annihilator of whole worlds, deserve his place in Jedi heaven just because he was nice to his son before he died?

 

Greedo shot first!

 

It is the No True Scottsman Fallacy. I guess we are supposed to speculate what Hitler was thinking on April 3rd, 1940 at 10:37pm.

 

Actually...Hitler was pretty nice to Atheists as long as they weren't communist. I do believe citizens who choose to have no beliefs were PROTECTED in writing. Mighty different then how he picked on the JW, Jews, Buddists, and any other belief system. He tried to control the church because most people aligned themselves with the church---but to say he was Catholic is pretty farout there.

In my opinion...the guy was Atheist, devoid of any of God's light and possessed by a demon or two---

 

No, it's not, as I'm not redefining what a Catholic is to exclude Hitler. In fact I'm not excluding Hitler at all, he WAS a catholic, he never left the church. I just don't think that he was sincere about it.

Hitler declared Nazism as the state religion, and replaced bibles with Mein Kampf in schools. After assuming power he told some of his associates that he wanted to stamp out Christianity. He said "We have no sort of use for a fairy story invented by the Jews". He said many other similar things. Of course, he also said a lot of things that would make you think he was really sincere about it. This ambivalence makes me think that, he just used Catholicism, and possibly Christianity entirely, as political leverage. He was certainly no atheist, and if you want to think he was a sincere Catholic you go right ahead, I just think that's dead wrong.

 

Hitler paid his church taxes until the day he died.

Hitler thought that Christianity had become weak. He preferred the medieval view. Spreading your beliefs by the sword.

 

Hitler was also, and this tends to surprise people, anti Darwin's theories on evolution.

 

I am really not interested in the No True Scottsman Fallacy. I am interested in a answer to the scenarios cited in the OP.

 

I am really not interested in the No True Scottsman Fallacy. I am interested in a answer to the scenarios cited in the OP.

 

If people have a problem with Hitler, then replace it with "some random Nazi soldier". The who makes no difference, I am not interested in the Red Herring in not addressing the simple question.

 

There's only a little problem for you: Hitler killed a lot of people of the jewish parts of my families - while I am still a Catholic. To be a Catholic is a wonderful thing. And additionally I would not be astonished if you would open an exit for people out of their not existing problems where 's written on in golden letters "brainwashed brainwashers camp - slaves for free".

http://youtu.be/HCTJeT2i9QU

 

I am not the least bit interested.

Please address the OP.

 

No - you are living in Hitlers hell - regardless of any theology. You are for example not able to watch the Swastika with innocent joy if you try to see today this symbol in its original message. If you would live in the 192xth then your feeling would be completly different if you would see a Swastika. Lots of people - nearly everyone - have problems with the logos in time. The strange thing: You are not able to ignore Hitlers hell. This would be dangerous and it would hurt you to do so. Only love is able to understand. That's what I - a Catholic - says to you. Other Catholics will speak in another way with you - but the basic message will always be the same: love is the way.

http://youtu.be/JrF1ylQQZyc
http://youtu.be/wQV010hS-9E

 

I'm glad you're not interested in it, because as I have demonstrated, it's not a NTS fallacy. Still, I agree that it's off-topic so we'll leave it at that.

 

... SS? No one of the SS married in a ceremony with a priest - specially not priests of the catholic church. The people in the SS were atheists and mysticists ... and lots of the people of this private army of the NSDAP were nothing else than horrifying murderers and cowards fighting with the best material against civilists.

http://youtu.be/vg7UkvCwOKA

 

The way it should be:

Hitler never goes to heaven, he always goes to hell. The atheist always goes to heaven, even when he kills Hitler, because the killing was probably self defense. But when the atheist kills himself, he doesn't go either heaven or hell.

 

If heaven and hell existed which I'm pretty sure they don't - sounds suspiciously like that state-friendly church's version of what parents tell their kids: "If you're naughty Santa won't give you your presents!" - then who cares anyway?

The suffering of Hitler of course would be tiny in comparison to that of the millions of victims of the Nazi regime.

 

Hitler was was Catholic by birth only. His beliefs weren't based on any popular version of Christianity, he was in a class all by himself, basically a cult leader.

 

He paid his Catholic Church taxes until the day he died.

 

Nobody goes to Heaven or Hell, because those are imaginary places. As is shown by so many American fundamentalists, labels mean nothing: the number of people who live by the Sermon on the Mount or anything Jesus ever said is tiny. Arguments about 'religion' are a waste of time because, particularly in the US 'religious' people are merely adopting a convenient label for the worship of Mammon. Surely everyone knows this?