The Nazi and the Atheist

All this and you failed to address the question.

 

Nazis were atheists who were ignoring god, ignoring life, ignoring reality, ignoring ... . Your premises are wrong - wether you prefer to ignore this or not.

http://youtu.be/s2GGjlo49ms

 

Do read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Remember for a brief moment, Christianity is salvation by Grace, not works.

 

first time i've actually laughed while reading a post on this forum

as for my answer: neither goes to hell

if a god does exist, he wouldn't punish people without first making rules that would be punishable if violated.

he has yet to do so.

 

Do read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Remember for a brief moment, Christianity is salvation by Grace, not works.

 

Christianity is no salvation at all - Christianity is a lifestyle - perhaps I can say Christianity are the arts to find the right ways to find the right way.

http://youtu.be/pR64sHHKngY

 

I read a german text about this strange "true scotsman" nonsense. I guess a Scotsman know very well who's a Scotsman and who's not a Scotsman. Whatever: Nazis were atheists. This doesn't mean every "Nazi" was a monster. Take John Rabe as an example: He saved lots of people from death. Take Schindler as an example. He saved also lots of people after he had to find out how perverse the whole situation was.

On the other side take a look at Heinrich Himmler - one of the worst mass murderers of history. He was educated to be a Catholic and Humanist - but his education failed. His own father called him a criminal.

http://youtu.be/jOKnUKIZ_Kc

 

Anobsitar, you usually seem like a smart guy. Presumably, you're aware that Nazis professed a surprisingly diverse range of creeds including atheism, Catholicism, Protestantism, paganism, and more. So I can only assume that your argument is that their claims were false. I'll leave aside the whole 'no true scotsman' thing and instead point to the fact that, regardless of whether they properly followed the principles of any given religion, many nazis absolutely, definitely, undeniably, did believe in the existence of god. Anyone who believes that a god exists is NOT an atheist, whether they follow religious principles properly or not.

 

I'm a German. Germans are idiots. So I'm an idiot.

The Nazis learned for example political lies and pragmatism from the US-president Wilson (world war 1). Would you say now the USA is the reason for only one of the concentration camps of the Nazis? Not really, isn't it? In general the Nazis tried to misuse everything if they were able to misuse it and if not then they tried to destroy it. Heinrich Himmler for example was trying to create an own religion. He told everyone that he's a reborn emperor of the holy roman empire of the german nation. Does this mean the holy roman empire is responsible for the deeds of Himmler? For sure not.

Nazis were atheists - specially they were darwinistic racists and were very interested in modern engineering and industrial productions.

No - that's impossible - to be a Nazi and to believe in god are excluding each other. I'm still today able to identify german [Neo-]Nazis if they speak about the catholic church or god.

Everyone who misrespects god as if he would not exist is an atheist. It's not important what someone says to others - it's important what someone believes. And everyone knows that sometimes people are liars. So to trust in someone is sometimes - ¿or always? - the problem. And "not or never to trust in everyone" is impossible for a Christian.

http://youtu.be/c3ay1kAK0YA

 

Hey, I'm meant to be the sarcastic one here.

I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you denying that there were nazis who were catholic, protestant, pagan etc?

Engineering and industry are hardly exclusive to atheism, and even though Darwin influenced their policies that is not enough to honestly say "nazis were atheists". Many of them professed a religion, many of them claimed to believe in god. Surely, some of them were just paying lip service, but certainly nowhere near all of them, and the nazi party policy was not to exclude believers of accepted religions.

How on earth can they possibly be exclusive? That claim is 100% specious.

You'd like us to think that, wouldn't you, but it's quite simply falsehood. To be an atheist you cant believe god exists at all. If you believe god exists but do something that some people consider 'against god' (people who, bear in mind, very likely have different ideas of what god is, never mind what is against god) , you're still theist, by definition, end of story.

Christians? Well, that's moving the goalposts a little, I thought we were talking about religious people in general. I imagine it should be relatively easy to show how nazis went against the teachings of Jesus. Of course, every human being who ever lived has went against those teachings at some point, so the key must be in ATTEMPTING to follow those teachings. I agree the nazis (the ones who believed in a god) made a relatively halfhearted attempt at that, but is that enough to make them not Christians?

 

Name of the [leading and deciding] Nazi who professed a religion except atheism? What kind of religion?

http://youtu.be/UoCbdR1yAd8
http://youtu.be/T4b_RZ9ROXQ

 

Simple example: A Dawinist - Nazis were Darwinists - would kill everyone who is weak. First because someone who is weak needs more resources then he's able to offer - and second because he likes to eliminate the genetical information of such a monster on biological reasons. A Christian - or any other member of a religion with high moral - would try to protect everyone who is weak because the laws of Christianity/Humanity are witten in everyones heart. Take Bishop Galen as an example who was able to force the Nazis to stop the murdering of mentally deficient children. In my eyes this was a kind of wonder that he was able to have only a little influence in the wrotten hearts of the superhuman (and not existing) "aryan" race. Still today no German has really any lousy idea about what an "aryan" could be and what this really has to do with the german culture or the biology of middle-europeans. The Nazis confused everyone. Neverthelels everyone needed a kind of aryan-passport during the time of the Nazis. Mad world.

http://youtu.be/qJGZ2m4BVxU

 

I dont know how you can make the claim he was athiest based on his speeches and the very insignia all his military members wore on their belts (the cross).. A man as diabolical as hitler, who crushed all opposition with deadly force without fear of reprisal would have certainly done the same to the religions if he felt opposed to them. In fact, his prosectution of the Jews seems to be even more an indication that he was religions than anything.. seeing as most believe the jews killed Jesus.

 

Jesus was a Jew, Mary was Jew, Joseph was a Jew, ... Peter was a Jew, Paul was a Jew ... Sometimes I entertain suspicion the christians religion could have to do somethign with Jews. Seriosly I never found any information that Hitler was confrontated with antisemitism in the area he grew up. Do you know for example that the german crown of the emperors shows King David and King Salomon - to make clear the responsibilities? It was always the job of the leaders of the german nations to protect the Jews. Some made a bad job - and often people were totally confused - but that's not the mainstream. The mainstream is "Jews are the elder sisters and brothers of all Christians". A Christian, who is an antisemite, lost the christian message - and more worse: he's an antichristian too because no one is able ot be an antisemite and to take the words of Jesus the Christ serios. Someone is not able to hate what he loves. And there's indeed no confusion between hate and love because love is always clear and light.



http://youtu.be/E_OvT3Qm45E

 

What do you think has the message "god with us" to do with the Nazis? Do you think the roman emperor Constantine was a Nazi? The full message is by the way: "God with us in victory and defeat" - what means to be generous in case of victory and not to be desperated in case of defeat.

http://youtu.be/Ljm5225B_cg

 

So not living up to the morals of your religion means you are not a member?

Also, even if you were able to show they werent 'truly' christians, many still believed in the existence of a god, did they not?

 

Hitler will just plead insanity and evade hell.

The atheist is the one who will get torched.

 

I don't care wether you care about moral or not, Ebenezer.

http://youtu.be/EQ1FBwhdzns

 

I don't care whether you don't care whether I care.

I am interested to note that you avoided both questions, though.

 

There is no question - if someone would murder someone else and would say the same time "I believe in the allmighty god, that's why I'm doing this" then something would be wrong. And it's for sure not god who is wrong or the belief in god what is wrong. Sapere aude, incipe.

http://youtu.be/40HZigDSaV8

 

Read the Old Testament.

Next.

 

Have you heard about Abraham?

 

Sure - he's the father of all smurfs.

http://youtu.be/QJ5SApe-9mQ

 

The questions I posed are:

So not living up to the morals of your religion means you are not a member?

Also, even if you were able to show they werent 'truly' christians, many still believed in the existence of a god, did they not?

They're clearly questions, they have a question mark at the end.

 

Your problems are not my problems. I'm only a part of the game - not the game itselve - and also not the ruler of the game.

http://youtu.be/RKp3bDGlTng