The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?

If we are to reason together, do not throw garbage quotes at me please.

If Jesus loved unconditionally, he sure had a funny way of showing that love when he threw his violent fit against the merchants at the temple.

Jesus, or the archetypal Jesus the scribes made up, know that the concept of I am predated anything he knew as it is an analogy of what Freud and Jung called the Father Complex.

FTPOV, of course I am existed before any other concepts entered his mind. It is the same for all of us and that I am creates a negative bias or hate, the moment it creates a positive bias or love bias.

Keep it real and not supernatural or your thinking will be no better than those with some guy in the sky that must be idol worshipped.

Regards
DL

 

Anobsitar said...

Right, there is more to human existence than just memory. Yet in daily lives, memory plays a huge and very essential role. We would not survive as a species without it. Memory is recorded experience, and all that experience entails from an education to sensory experiences. And no doubt essential for human life, and a continued existence as a species.

Our very identity relies upon memory. It gives continuity to the ego as well in our natural state of consciousness. And yet this same ego which relies upon memory, in its pursuit of pleasure and gratification, both physical and psychological is the root cause of sin. Sin being the act of hurting another person, as the ego seeks and pursues pleasure. Dying to the paradigm of the ego ruling over our bodies, being in a state where the ego no longer is the driving factor of action and thought, as it pursues pleasure, is an aspect of enlightenment, or salvation to use a biblical term. Then the ego, memory acts when it is needed, but it no longer is ruling over consciousness as it once did. And therefore isn't committing the sin of ego gratification, by hurting others in achieving that gratification. Or as Christ commanded, "be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect". This can only occur when the ego is no longer the ruler of your domain. The ego assumes its constructive role in human existence. But no longer makes a mess of things, creating disorder in the world. It would look as if man was actually living by the golden rule.

 

What if someone thought homosexuality was a just cause for discrimination? Then their support of homophobia is not due to agreeing with discrimination without a cause, just a misconception of what a cause is.

 

Then I would listen to what they think is a just cause and either agree or disagree with it.

Most just say that it is their church or bible that says it and that is why they believe it.

IOW, they allow evil men to do their thinking for them.

I think I recall you being a theist.

Do you think there is a just cause to discriminate against gay adults for living life as they see fit and as what God created them to be?

Regards
DL

 

You may agree or disagree, but the point remains that such a person might not agree with the idea of discrimination without just cause, since they believe their discrimination is just. It thus seems to me incorrect to say that there would be no homophobia if people didn't agree with the idea of unjust discrimination.

 

Think what you will as you did not answer my question and I am not going to bother having a one way conversation.

If, like you, homophobes do wish to show their cards, then they cannot ever lose a hand. They just cannot ever win one either.

Regards
DL

 

Sorry I missed out a bit of your post. I was editing my post to include an answer when I saw you had answered again. I have no intention to avoid answering, I will answer below.

I am not a theist. However, I disagree with the tribalism that sometimes turns up in religious and political debates, so I will address things I disagree with on either "side" of the debate, that might be why you think I'm a theist.

I do not think there is just cause to discriminate against people because of homosexuality.

I find that some hostility and misunderstanding between different sides of political and religious debates comes from a simplistic understanding of the other side's position. Some Christians who discriminate against gay people do so because they think there is justification to do so. You and I may disagree with them, but that is due to us disagreeing with them on what constitutes a just cause, not disagreeing with them on whether unjust discrimination should happen. If we engage with such a person in debate about what constitutes a just cause, we can have a reasonable debate, and I think we're in the right. If we claim that they are against the concept of justice, even though they value justice, then they will just think us mistaken.

 

Thanks for the reply.

I have tried to have a reasonable debate on homosexuality with homophobes. It is beyond their ability. I have seen two preachers go at it and end nowhere.

Brainwashing is hard to reverse.

Regards
DL

 

I can't remember having one on the topic of homosexuality, but I have had reasonable debates with several people who others have deemed impossible to reason with. One important aspect is not blowing the disagreement out of proportion or misrepresenting the other's opinion.

 

I'm sorry to learn that you consider anything I posted to be "garbage quotes". That suggests it isn't "registering" in you.

Who said Jesus loved unconditionally all the time?

Explain?

Then since you're having trouble breaking through the mind's grip, let me say it just a tiny bit differently: "ONLY 'I' am".
If that doesn't help, there's no point in continuing.

 

Jung and Freud likely observed what the scribes showed here.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

They put their own religious twist to it but I hear those quotes saying that Jesus found his Father Complex. Jung and Freud just put a new name to an old phenomenon.

Perhaps it is your mind that is being gripped, especially if you cannot fathom that our hate biases are born from our love biases.

As to your "ONLY 'I' am".

Think demographically. We are all in this together, alone. Only in that sense would I consider that term of yours as worthy.

Regards
DL

 

Sigh

 

I may be confused but it seems to me that the single common belief in Christianity is the divinity of Jesus. The rest is details spread among the various sects.

 

I think you are correct as they are all supposed to accept the apostles creed.

Knowing Christians, I think they will swear to anything to stay in their in groups regardless of the immorality of their particular denomination.

I see them as all wanting to ride their scapegoat Jesus into heaven by abdicating their own responsibilities.

They actually believe Jesus would condone such a vile concept as substitutionary punishment.

Regards
DL

 

Oh, so you are now some authority? Not me, for all that I do is to relate direct experience, and keep it on that level. And I stopped sighing long ago. That you have no such experience but rely upon others, is IMO, the problem. Always giving me what some other brain has said. I prefer my own, thank you kindly. And direct perception of something. But not a second hand person on this issue. Some of us want to be told what to do. Others, would rather not go down that path, given where it tends to lead.

 

You speak of "our" which means "humans". I speak of "I" and One Self, which is beyond humanness and beyond the body and its mind. I see both views. You only see the first and then assert that the problem is in my mind and understanding.

So when I say "I am", all you understand is the human body/mind complex as the "subject". This is why you don't agree with so much of what I said: you don't grasp it and you mistakenly apply it to the body. So of course you don't agree, nor do you "see".

 

You seem to believe in some kind of supernatural world.

Do you?

Regards
DL

 

I have discovered that Reality is far more than what we can detect with our senses. I now "see" the hidden meaning of the spiritual literature of all religions. I "see" the hidden meaning in the bible that even the editors, like Constantine, failed to completely eliminate. All of it is above the "natural", which is physicality. So yes, I not only "believe" in a "super-natural" world, but have participated consciously in it.

 

I understand that it is though to be a great teacher.

What did it teach you specifically?

Regards
DL

 

I have been posting it here in every post for about 4 days.

 

Strange. My simple instruction was to think more demographically.

Your chat must have been quite long. I guess my God did not have that kind of time to walk me through the reams of information you showed in four days.

Let me have the last word.



Regards
DL

 

I guess I misunderstood your question. I thought the instruction you asked about was that of the Inner Teacher. That Source has no interest nor information to impart with regard to this world or demographics. That is the domain of mind, and obviously there are multiple depths of that. The Inner Teacher speaks to he who has ears to hear and eyes to see, none of which is of the body or the world.

 

I see that as hogwash for a couple of reasons.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

Also.

Gnostic Jesus was questioned as to what sees the vision?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/maps/primary/mary.html

The Saviour answered and said, 'He does not see through the soul nor through the spirit, but the mind which [is] between the two - that is [what] sees the vision...'

For where the mind is, there is the treasure.

Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

The treasure is in you.

That is why your "none of which is of the body" is hogwash to me.

Regards
DL

 

Yes, and you don't "see" the esoteric spirit in those words. I see them completely differently than you due to the Inner Teacher. First, remember the original Aramaic was translated by humans who also lacked the Inner Teacher's guidance. And they translated it so as to produce what they considered to be the most 'reasonable' translation. IOW, there was some reasoning of mind going on. And yet, they didn't entirely eliminate the spiritual meaning; I see it saying "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you. (because the 'Kingdom' is not a physical place.)
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. (because It is infinite)
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves (Self)] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves (SB singular - 'Self'), [you will understand that] it is you (Self, -not body) who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty." (If you do not know Self/Oneness, you live in the poverty of the limited flesh)
It's all right there for anyone with ears to hear and it has nothing to do with the body. People commonly try to understand the bible in terms of benefits and concerns for the flesh, but that is the view of the "worldly man" or "natural man" who is not ready for "strong meat". Very little of it is about the human creature.

Of course.

The bible doesn't say that. Only you did. I can sit here and cite the bible all day to support my point for those with ears to hear. In fact, I'm thinking I may post a thread with selected verses to make specific points.

Yeah the kingdom of God is within you "too". Do you think it is a place and a thing that can be touched?

Again, if all you can get out of what I've said is "hogwash", you're the natural man who would do best to toss it all in the trash and just play in the world because the Spirit is not for you.
Regards.

 

Well, there are many sorts of Gnosticism as well as of Christianity. Which sort of Gnosticism do you subscribe to?