The Rape Excuse

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by kazenatsu, Mar 6, 2020.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Let's see... 127,000 rapes X 5% pregnancy rate = 6000 cases across the country in a year. With over 1 million abortions, we have 6000 / 1000000 or 0.6%.

    But that's not all. About half these women who were raped decide to give life to the baby.
    And there is about a 15% chance of spontaneous abortion (natural miscarriage) even if the woman does nothing.
    6000 / 2 = 3000
    3000 X (0.85) = 2550
    2550 / 1000000 = 0.26 %

    Now. Are you really trying to sway policy over 0.26% when almost everyone that opposes abortion allows for the exemption for rape and incest.

    It's even lower than that, because many of these rape victims may have popped a Plan B pill afterwards, and of course that never gets reported in the abortion statistics.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
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  2. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Rape is one of the things that needs to be thrown in to the face of those who want NO exceptions.

    However the true issue is that of bodily autonomy, the right to have removed from your body anything you don't want in there or to keep what you want. That is the right that gives a woman the choice to not have an abortion as well as the choice to have one. It's the same right we all have.
     
  3. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Since only 20 to 30% of all rapes are reported, how are you going to FORCE a woman to make a police report, go through the very invasive rape kit procedure, and then possibly a very public and humiliating trial to determine if she is "meeting your standards" for abortion?

    Every abortion has to be treated as being performed for a woman who may have been raped.
     
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  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    no report, no abortion 2 months later

    she won't be required to go through the rape kit procedure. many rapists use condoms.
    anyway, I think it could be argued that she really does have a moral obligation to take the rape kit. if she doesn't, it's on her if another victim gets raped. one would think she would want to do something to try to prevent this from happening again, to some other poor woman.

    Anyway, if she does the rape kit, hopefully they can give her a Plan B pill at the same time.

    I personally think they should do a mandatory genetic testing on the fetal remains.

    Are you familiar with bioethics committees in hospitals. The woman can still be granted privacy, and her name withheld from the public.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
  5. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    So you’ve been raped? That’s how you know how you would handle it? Tell us about it.
     
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  6. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    The ignorance is too deep in this post
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2020
  7. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Donor

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    Saying "No abortion" on a forum is easy. How would you enforce laws that failed long before the internet and abortion drugs?
     
  8. Ritter

    Ritter Banned

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    What do those incoherent statistics you posted have to do with the point you are trying to make? Why does how many percent of abortions are the result of rape even matter at all?

    I hold a huge despise for statistics in general and for wannabe-experts who use statistics to rationalise nonsense in particular.

    The reason some people regard rape as an exception is that it is very clear that a woman who gets pregnant from rape is without fault. She had that pregnancy imposed on her, against her will since the intercourse resulting in it was non-consentual.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  9. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    What you failed to realize is that women do NOT need an EXCUSE to get an abortion.

    And NO one is trying to sway policy "over 0.26%"" of anything...
     
  10. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    HOW is a fetus due to rape different from a fetus due to consensual sex?

    HOW is an abortion due to rape different from an abortion due to consensual sex?
     
  11. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    For those who are pro life, but are willing to make an exception for rape, their logic is as follows.

    The vast majority of the time that a woman engages in consentual sex, even if using multiple layers of birth control, she knows, or should know, that there is always a chance of pregnancy. Only two conditions exist in which pregnancy cannot occur. The man has no testicles, or the woman has no overies. Even the cutting or tying of the respective tubes holds a chance of pregnancy. Thus the woman needs to take responsibility for her consentual actions.

    In rape, there is no consent. The woman has no responsibility. These were not her voluntary actions, thus no fault to her.
     
  12. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    :) You NEVER answered my questions...I am so not surprised !!

    FoxHastings said:
    HOW is a fetus due to rape different from a fetus due to consensual sex?

    HOW is an abortion due to rape different from an abortion due to consensual sex?



    YOUR NON-answer is the "women must be punished for getting pregnant" cop out, fake, side step, avoidance answer...

    Anti-Choicers say they are only interested in the "precious life" in the womb….HOW is a fetus conceived by rape any less precious than that of a fetus conceived by consensual sex ???
    This two-faced opinion proves that they are only interested in punishing women who had consensual sex.

    Getting pregnant is not a crime and should not be punished by having the basic human right of bodily autonomy taken away.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  13. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    You seem to being reading your own ideology into my answers. Underlying your questions is the question of what makes the difference between consentual and rape, and how does it affect abortion and a prolifer's stance? Which is what I gave you. You can claim it strawman and technically, with regards to the questions being asked they are. However, the questions themselves can be seen as strawman questions, diverting from the reasoning of those who do hold rape as an exception. My answer has nothing to do with the " 'women must be punished for getting pregnant' cop out, fake, side step, avoidance answer..." as I do not hold such a position. I am pro-choice. That doesn't mean I do not comprehend why some would make an exception to their normal position that is in opposition to mine.
     
  14. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    :) You NEVER answered my questions...I am so not surprised !!

    FoxHastings said:
    HOW is a fetus due to rape different from a fetus due to consensual sex?

    HOW is an abortion due to rape different from an abortion due to consensual sex?



    YOUR NON-answer is the "women must be punished for getting pregnant" cop out, fake, side step, avoidance answer...

    Anti-Choicers say they are only interested in the "precious life" in the womb….HOW is a fetus conceived by rape any less precious than that of a fetus conceived by consensual sex ???
    This two-faced opinion proves that they are only interested in punishing women who had consensual sex.

    Getting pregnant is not a crime and should not be punished by having the basic human right of bodily autonomy taken away.



    No.


    No, there is nothing "underlying " my questions. They are straightforward concise questions.....that you have not answered.

    No one ever has...


    .

    I NEVER said YOU did.....I showed that when Anti-Choicers make an exception for rape they are two-faced when it comes to that "precious life" they pretend to care for.

    Whether a woman got pregnant by rape or consensual sex has NO bearing on the resulting fetus.
    To be willing to kill one fetus but not the other is two faced and proves conclusively that Anti-Choicers are only interested in punishing women who had consensual sex by not allowing them an abortion.



    And I just explained to you why they do. I comprehend their position , too.....and it's wrong.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  15. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    I think part of the problem is that you are trying to conflate all of the various reasonings/arguments of prolifers into one. There are various camps with different reasonings. Which is why some are willing to allow abortion for when a woman's life is at risk and others are not.
     
  16. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    I NEVER said YOU did.....I showed that when Anti-Choicers make an exception for rape they are two-faced when it comes to that "precious life" they pretend to care for.

    Whether a woman got pregnant by rape or consensual sex has NO bearing on the resulting fetus.
    To be willing to kill one fetus but not the other is two faced and proves conclusively that Anti-Choicers are only interested in punishing women who had consensual sex by not allowing them an abortion.

    And I just explained to you why they do. I comprehend their position , too.....and it's wrong.





    Why are Anti-Choicers against abortion ?

    What are the "different reasonings" ?


    BTW, we were discussing abortion due to consensual sex and abortion due to rape, NOT anything about "when a woman's life is at risk".
     
  17. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Newly Registered

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    It could be argued that there is no difference. It could be argued that, thus, the difference is up to the woman and any consequences on her and no one else.
     
  18. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Most are about life in some form or another. For some it's absolute, for other's it's conditional. For other's it's about responsibility for one's own actions.

    So then you are incapable of recognizing an example to show a point. Good to know.
     
  19. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    I believe that is part of his point. The three of us all seem to be pro choice. He is using the lack of difference to highlight what he sees as hypocrisy for those prolifers who do make an exception for rape. At least that is what comes across to me.
     
  20. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    You are correct, there is NO difference.

    Thank you for being the first to ever answer the questions.


    You are also correct with " up to the woman and any consequences on her and no one else."
     
  21. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    What about life?


    Why do they have "conditions"? Either life is life or it's not.

    Then they should be responsible for their own actions and leave others to their's.

    Why do they think they can dictate to women what their responsibility is ?


    It didn't make a point.
     
  22. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

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    Underlying the OP's argument is an idea that women can't really be trusted with their bodies. It's the only justification for this argument I can see. Is the OP really saying that women deserve to have less bodily autonomy "because they might lie"?
     
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  23. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, we can't. Not unless the truth serum is administered.
    Which wouldn't be so draconian as it may sound, because the woman is going to be placed under anesthesia before the procedure begins anyway.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  24. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

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    That sounds even worse when you put it like that. More importantly who is your baseline for assuming women lie? You're saying women aren't trustworthy, compared to who?
     
  25. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not saying women do lie, I'm saying they would lie, under those conditions, if abortion were not legal and an exception was made for rape.

    Once again, I see you pulling out the card "Trust women, women know best".

    Most women who would get an elective abortion probably aren't the type that would have any qualms about lying.
    You think she would do what she does, but then be of enough high moral caliber that she couldn't fathom herself making a false statement about being raped?
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020

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