The reality of no-deal Brexit can no longer be distorted

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by LafayetteBis, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Active Member

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    So what? Constitutionally and even by the SC' ruling negotiating with foreign powers is the exclusive business of Gov.and none other. We are talking treason here on the part of the opposition.

    Liberals refused women the vote for many many years. From the date that women gain the vote Libs have never again been in Gov.

    Joe Swindon has financial interests in keeping us in, or rater her hubbies company does - she will never be PM.
     
  2. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Active Member

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    Neither the economy nor trade were the direrect reason why. Yes, in real terms we are 4.8 trillion in debt - how staying in the EU and as the Lisbon Treaty kicks in a part of the Euro will help us manage that debt is a mystery - The public sector is larger than the private sector now which is ridiculous when we need more money in the coffers - being in the EU with all its Regs ( 84 thousand+ such laws are on our statute books) is not conducive to any business - once Gov has begun to repeal said Regs and out of EU political and its protection racket trade clutches we will fare ok.

    As for who would win a GE and by what margin - it is hard to say. The North will never vote Tory, Labour have broken their hearts, they won't vote LibDem but will they split the vote between small parties ie Brexit and UKIP so that the unwanted get in? Ditto Wales. Cons will lose in Scotland - One suspects that the Tories will win but, though millions of Remain voters have come over to the Brexit side it only matters where they are - for it to make a difference.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 4:49 AM
  3. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Active Member

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    Look up Guy Verhofstadt --- look at what he says to know why, the moment we had a chance, we voted to step away from the madness of the EU's past acts and plans for our future. .
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 4:57 AM
  4. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Adopted the Magna Carta, really ?

    How about Bolton promising, oh well...……………………….
     
  5. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/magna-carta-muse-and-mentor/magna-carta-and-the-us-constitution.html
    Which is a damn sight more than what any fellow EU country has bothered to do.
    Why should UK turn its back on USA after this?
    Why should UK care what any 'backwards/devoid of freedom of speech and the right of the minority' EU country want since they don't seem to share our values?
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 12:26 PM
  6. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry, but the PotUS can always negotiate with any foreign country they want. Any treaty that might devolve requires however scrutiny and acceptance by the two chambers of Congress.

    Methinks ...
     
  7. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not really. Only two conditions are needed:
    *No further new debt is added, and
    *The existing debt is paid off by the central treasury employing taxation receipts.

    This latter being bolstered by exports and/or internal GDP growth - neither of which will happen in the UK, once it leaves the EU.

    The UK has shot itself in the foot. And it cannot recover from that wound without internal economic growth that just aint-gonna-happin having shut-out one's Major Trading Partner and diminished thereby external trade revenues.

    It's a simple as that ...
     
  8. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which is kinda-sorta stoopid bearing a grudge that long.

    Frankly, I doubt that is a serious factor any longer. This last female PM having proved the point - she made all the necessary mistakes all-by-herself ...
     
  9. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, you look him up and post what he has to say here.

    Try harder - this is a Debate Forum, not a Message Board ... !
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 1:08 PM
  10. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Active Member

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    Not under our constitution nor our laws they cannot. Negotiating treaties with foreign powers is for Gov and Gov only to do. The Remoaners in Parliament are working against the Gov and the people in colluding with foreign powers to stop our wished for independence from the EU..
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 1:23 PM
  11. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Active Member

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    Yeh of course you don't want to have to admit to the evil face of the EU! Of course you don't.
     
  12. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Active Member

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    She wasn't a Liberal she was an EU puppet.
     
  13. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Active Member

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    Oh and were do taxes come from?

    Thanks!
     
  14. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    From your link
    quote

    Magna Carta exercised a strong influence both on the United States Constitution and on the constitutions of the various states. However, its influence was shaped by what eighteenth-century Americans believed Magna Carta to signify. Magna Carta was widely held to be the people’s reassertion of rights against an oppressive ruler, a legacy that captured American distrust of concentrated political power. In part because of this tradition, most of the state constitutions included declarations of rights intended to guarantee individual citizens a list of protections and immunities from the state government. The United States also adopted the Bill of Rights, in part, due to this political conviction.

    Both the state declarations of rights and the United States Bill of Rights incorporated several guarantees that were understood at the time of their ratification to descend from rights protected by Magna Carta. Among these are freedom from unlawful searches and seizures, a right to a speedy trial, a right to a jury trial in both a criminal and a civil case, and protection from loss of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.

    Many broader American constitutional principles have their roots in an eighteenth-century understanding of Magna Carta, such as the theory of representative government, the idea of a supreme law, and judicial review.
     
  15. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The money has to come from somewhere, and what better place than from those who benefited most its expenditure that became the debt-mountain.

    Aint nuthin' nevah that's free - some people just think there is ...
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 3:18 PM
  16. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Enough of your one-liner sarcasm.

    This is a DEBATE Forum ... !
     
  17. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As principles, yes. But in actual fact, back at that time, nobody knew how to go about establishing them in terms of governance.

    There were only two countries that overthrew their king. One was France and the other the American colonies. And both communicated on the subject. If you don't care to believe that, next time in Paris, go to the very restaurant that they employed for their discussion. (The Procope.) Franklin was the US ambassador to France and met regularly with the French who intended to overthrow the king.

    It took a while for European royalty to recognize that their "gig" was over. And the Russian Tsar waited far too long.

    It still took all of the 20th century for European countries to come around to the notion of a Social Democracy - and, of course, the Russians are still way behind that eight-ball.

    One could say the same for the US as well ...
     
  18. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Active Member

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    Taxes come from the private sector - as does wealth. I repeat, our public sector, which generates no wealth and uses up taxes, is much larger than our private sector, which does generate wealth and thus taxes. Now do you understand the prob of a massive bureaucracy?
     
  19. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Active Member

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    Truth.
     
  20. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    @gnoib Magna Carta influenced more in the US than it did in any EU country, why should UK side with any EU country against the US in trade given UK and US have shared values unseen in most any EU country; like Freedom of Speech and Rights of Minorities.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 3:54 PM
  21. Yakamaru

    Yakamaru Well-Known Member

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    People are really starting to despise the European Union not to mention the European Commission and the Parliament.

    Come 31st of October it's going to be fun to see how things play out.
     
  22. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Active Member

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    It is a long way to the 31st, I am afraid. Remoaners from Parliament including Bercow are colluding with the EU now ----- nasty nasty stuff is being cooked up.
     
  23. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Well, I know how much the French influenced the American settlers and how much their revolution influenced the writers of the US constitution.
     
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  24. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Mind you, the writers of the US constitution were once British subjects. Naturally what they knew of the Magna Carta influenced them, they did not adopted it, as you call it. They were equally influenced by the French revolution.
    Lets not forget, France was their Ally and quiet a few of the writers had good contact to France.
    No, they did not adopt the Magna Carter, they created a Republic and made history with the most liberal constitution.

    Concerning the European countries, all their Constitutions share the same values, as the US or the unwritten of the UK, mind you the UK is the only European country without a written constitution.
    Magna Carta is probably the greatest document in European history and has influenced all constitution in Europe and North America.
    But naturally there are other great events and documents, French Revolution, Martin Luther, American Revolution and its constitution and me as a German would add the Grundgesetz.
    Let me give a advice, read the Grundgesetz, its brilliant. It combines the lesson of the Weimar Republic, Third Reich, Magna Carta, French Revelution and the American constitution. You know why, because it was written by France, UK, US and Germany.
     
  25. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    If Germany and France and Ireland were so great, then do they have Freedom of Expression instead of Freedom of Speech? If France was so great, then why is their republic majority rule to our (UK and America) right of the minority? Why is that in Germany people cannot not criticise a head of state or people in France have to suffer state oppression like France using force to oppose onto Romani Gypsies. Why should UK side with France or NL who's banned the burqa because of majority rule?
    If Europe was as free as you claim, then why aren't I in a rush to side with the EU over USA when USA and UK both protect minorities and uphold freedom of speech? Why is UK and USA considered to have a special relationship and not UK and Germany? Because Germany knows not of such values enjoyed in the UK or USA.
     

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