Trump and religious liberty -- Militant atheists have met their match with our president

America dont own a god.

 

Trump's "gods" are money and woosies.

 

And it should be noted that the Founding Fathers would have been about 160 years old when the Pledge of Allegiance was composed.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy(1855-1931). It was originally published in The Youth's Companion on September 8, 1892.

 

I look forward to your next syllable with great eagerness.

 

And what about Trump ripping off people....was he practicing his godly belief?

 

People like that have zero right to preach to us about god and moral values.

 

Overwhelming that congress passed useless nonsense from time to time?

 

Keep your religion to yourself!

 

Funny how the religious right only "forgive" Trump but skewered Clinton. What a bunch of phonies.

 

Get a clue. They weren't all Christians and got away from England because of the power of the church. They didn't come to America only to create another theocracy.

 

Slavery.

 

Ah....they were even smarter than I thought. They don't need such pledges to be patriots.

Aren't we proud to be repeating words formed by socialist??

 

Just as there many fraudulent Christian's on the right. So what?

 

'Keep your [any speech] to yourself' is not freedom of speech.

 

LOL what? Read up on what freedom of speech is then come back after you've had a clear understanding of it.

 

freedom of speech
[freedom of speech]
NOUN

1. the right to express any opinions without censorship or restraint.

What part of that means I can't express my religion?

 

Read up the Constitution version and not some dictionary version of the term. Dont play coy.

And as far as I'm concerned, you can express it all you want but you can't make me worship or believe in your god.

 

Agree 100%

So who is trying to make you?

 

I’m more proud to be able to wake up everyday and contribute to society. I am more proud to have raised my children to become productive citizens as well. I am more proud to be able to pay my taxes and have a system of government that protects my freedoms, yet I am most proud of President Trump for the past three and a half years for taking everything the liberal left has to throw at him, including the kitchen sink.

 

You are correct, it is not your problem. You, and people like you, have become my problem. By saying that, "it is not my problem", typifies the arrogance, insensitivity, apathy, and elitist behavior of many religious folks. Characterizing enlightened and critical minds as "shallow", can only be to save face, from you're own gullible and uncritical mind. Rational thinkers call your attitude, "the arrogance and ignorance of religion.". Maybe you can think of a rational reason, why I am not allowed to buy beer before 1pm on Sunday? That is, other than the callous and cruel disregard for others, "it's not my problem"?

Surely, if you are going to believe, obey, defend, worship, live by, serve, proselytize, and prostrate yourself, because of your belief, wouldn't you want to know if that belief is real, or false? Wouldn't you want to know that your belief, is the correct belief, and the correct God(s)? Or, have you past caring anymore? I guess cognitive dissonance still reigns

I can't help how I speak, anymore than you can help what you believe in. My reality(with a few fantasies thrown in) are based on objective facts. But that doesn't mean that my mind is closed to any alternative beliefs. I simply want to see the evidence that supports the claims. Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence. Not extraordinary faith. If you want to believe, that you are the reincarnation of Napoleon Bonaparte, does not mean the you are. I have the constitutional freedom NOT to live by your religious practices and tenants. This fact-less insidious encroachment of religion, is a violation of my constitutional freedom FROM religion(happiness and privacy).

Are you saying that the ToE is not recognized by scientist as a fact? Prove it? Lets hear your explanation of the mechanics of how offspring inherit parental features, how species diversify, or how organisms adapt to changes in their environment? "God did it"? Never mind.

Also, you do not SEE gravity, time, and force. You only see their effects on matter. We can SEE the effects that genetic mutations have on all organisms, in relationship with its environment. So, the ToE is in everyway a true scientific Theory, like Gravity, Germ, Cell, Kinetic, Tectonic, etc.

You don't have a clue what people want, or don't want, outside of your own bias. Unless, of course, you are a mind reader. My problem is WHY? Is it because of cost, health, labour, or some other rational issue. If any person chooses not to buy beer on a Sunday morning, then they don't have to. But what right do these people have to prevent ME from buying beer on Sunday morning? This is just one of many examples of how the religious views, beliefs, and practices have encroached into my life. Criminalizing abortion, calling Creationism a science, trying to teach Intelligent Design in science classes, using a Bible in courts, putting prayer in our public schools, are only just a few. Isn't the forced indoctrination of helpless children, before they have the mental maturity to fight back, enough to satisfy your belief insecurities?

Why are you so insecure, that you must have others believe in your nonsense? We just want to exercise our right of freedom FROM any silly religion. Most of the Supreme Court rulings have protected us from your Religious encroachments, but a few have gotten through. Unfortunately, religious zealots seem to just keep coming. All religions, discourage, destroys, and supresses individuality, creativity, objectivity, the innocence of curiosity, all practical science(like it did in the Middle East), our natural ability to excel, and even our genetic potential. Eventually, it will be all independent, rational, and critical thinkers, who will become the ones persecuted. Our cognitive process, will be shackled by a religious hive mentality. We don't interfere with your freedom to worship anything you want. So, why can't you just leave the rest of us alone? Isn't God enough?

You are correct, I may not have anything new to say, but at least, I don't have "nothing" to say. I respectfully hope that this post did not push your attention span to its limits. If so, I don't expect a response. But, remember, YOU, and people like you, are NOT the only ones that read my posts.

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You mean the religious right doesn't want to turn this nation into a Christian nation? With prayers back in schools?? Do tell.

 

Some do, but they're a small minority. Just like a small minority of Muslims want to turn it into a Muslim nation and a small minority of Anti-theists want us to worship the state. All belief systems have their control freaks. Free speech is our greatest defense against all of them. It ensures they have the right to annoy you with their prosyltizing in the public forum, but more importantly, it ensures your right to tell them to go F themselves with it. Thats real equality.

But, there is a vast gulf between people expressing their religion and people forcing you to convert. It seems like you were trying to conflate the two a few comments back...

And ftr- I oppose prayer being led in public schools by authority figures unless its at an extracurricular voluntary function. But students of all beliefs should be allowed to pray in schools.

 

Actually they do have the RIGHT under free speech as long as it don't intervene with your rights, just because you don't like it or approve means squat! People have the right to speak of God and moral values just as you have the right NOT to listen as well as express that you disagree. You may find Trump to be a hypocrite, you may think his supporters are too, you're entitled to your opinion even it's wrong. Regardless of character or life choices people can freely express their beliefs rather you like it or not.

These two remarks contradict themselves don't you think? Which is it?

Nobody is making you worship God, say "under God" in the pledge, pray, etc. One can choose to not partake its actually pretty simple; nobody should be forced into a religious belief or practice, but why should people who do believe in God have to stifle their religion for your beliefs?

 

I think you misunderstand, just what our constitutional right of free speech actually entails. IT IS NOT AN ABSOLUTE RIGHT. You cannot yell "fire" in a crowded theater. and many other things. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exceptions . Many people have done wicked, cruel, immoral, and discriminatory things, under the guise of expressing their religious liberties. Would you like it, if a store owner refuses to serve you, because he refuses to serve chattel? Or, an Arab owner, that refuses to serve Jews? Or, a fundamentalist Christian that refuses to serve Black Americans? So, it is a lot more than non-believers, just not liking what believers are selling. Religious influence is a very real encroachment into the lives of non-believers. In fact non-believers couldn't care less about how you express your religious views through speech. It is how you express your freedom of religion in practice, that is their concern. These concerns are clearly justified.

Do you think that evangelists, and door to door religious zealots, banging on my door constitute a violation of my freedom FROM religions?
Do you think that my children should be taught to ignore years of research and studies in Evolution, and simply accept that "God did it all"?
Do you think that we should replace the tenants of every physical science, with the tenants of Creationism? That the Universe is 6-10 thousand years old, and God created man and woman?. Because the Bible says so?
Do you think we should indoctrinate children into religion? https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2015/05/15/childhood-indoctrination-religions-greatest-weapon/
Do you think we should encourage religious servitude, guilt and sin, and the punishment of everlasting pain and suffering?
Do you think that the value of evidence, objective facts and data, should play zero role in the validation of any religious belief. Or is faith enough?
Do you think that ALL religious views and practices, should play an equal role in state affairs and policies?
Do you think every public school should set aside time, for children to pray, if they want to? You can't see the problems with multiple denominations praying?
Do you think that our state should sponsor its own religion?

My point is obvious. We can't ignore that abortion is illegal in some states, because of religious beliefs. We can't ignore many restrictions(alcohol, gambling, cigarettes, work, etc.) imposed on me because of someone else's faith. My point is PROVE IT. What is the evidence that supports any religious belief? Why do I need to worship something that is not real, and why do you? Surely, out of the Billions of believers, thousands of religious beliefs, and since the dawn of mankind, there must be just ONE person who can present just ONE objective piece of evidence to support his belief. Isn't that alone, somewhat odd? Even to the weakest of skeptics.

The Pledge of Allegiance was just fine, until "Ike" asked Congress to change the words to "under God"(1954). These words were changed BY MEN, not God. Just as the Bible was created, written, compiled, edited, and contracted, by men. Not God. Putting down words on a paper, does not make them holy or righteous. You also said no one is making you do anything. Please look at all the Supreme Court rulings(relating to Religions), when children were ostracized by Christians for not praying with other kids. Families were persecuted for practicing a different faith, or cult. Human rights violations of people calling themselves Atheists. Or, teachers accepting the Theory of Evolution, instead of creationism? Maybe you should also look at the practices of the KKK, busing, the Jim Crow Laws, and the meaning of the word "chattel" in the Bible. If there were no religious abuses, there would be no rulings between church and state. If Christians really practiced Christianity, instead of intolerance, elitism, exclusivity, arrogance, violence, fear and guilt, and superstitions, there would never be any issues regarding religions. Unfortunately, religions are man-made, and culture-specific, so there is nothing remotely ecclesiastical or spiritual about religions.

Maybe you can at least tell me specifically, just how is your religious freedoms being stifled? Secondly, people without religious beliefs, are just the same as you, without religious beliefs. And, finally, do you think indoctrinating young children into religion, is tantamount to forcing them into religion?