Trump may come out of this latest Kurd debacle smelling like a rose

The buck stops with Trump.

 

Just say you don't know will save time and space. If you can't support a statement, don't make it.

 

Isn't Trump the guy who shot up ISIS?

And isn't it the leftists who claim that since Trump became President the America doesn't have any allies anymore?

America has had the same four allies for decades now.. The rest are just acquaintances.

 

Welp?

 

The Kurds were our allies. Conservatives used to know that before the Trump cult took over.

By the way, every President who was in power when ISIS was around "shot up ISIS."

Trump has released ISIS prisoners. But keep running away from that fact if that's the only way you know to "respond" to it.

 

Yes. Are you also pretending to need an explanation?

 

Sorry, no offense, but Leftists always need verification from reliable sources for any claims they make.

 

No interest.

 

Not a leftist (in fact, I'm probably to the right of you on several facets) and you can make demands once you start offering reliable sources of your own. I won't hold my breath since we both know that won't be happening anytime soon.

 

No interest in maintaining the fantasy you had previously advanced about caring about grammar errors while supporting a man who routinely makes grammar errors? Glad to hear you have dropped that act.

 

Given we were allied with ISIS for most of the war - setting a few ISIS prisoners free - does not much pull on the national security heart string. So you can give that "we are the good guys - necessary illusion propaganda" a rest. I realize that this is what the Establishment owned MSM has been pumping out non stop - but this is no reason to parrot it.

Your second point "turn our backs on our allies" - is what the OP is about.

Having the Kurds work with Damascus is likely the best option. You are welcome to argue otherwise - but in your post it is an assumed premise.

What are is a better option .. Turkey is going in - and they have told us so. Do we

A) go to war with Turkey
B) arm the Kurds - with tens of thousands of tons of sophisticated military equipment - like we did Al Qaeda and ISIS in Syria ?
C) Have our troops sit on the sideline and watch ?

D) urge the Kurds to work with the Gov't of the nation in which they live ?

We are in violation of international law being in Syria uninvited - violation of international law (and possible war crimes - crimes against humanity) by arming an insurgency in a foreign nation against the Gov't.

The war against Assad is over - the longer we sit there the uglier it is going to get.

 

No matter how much the infobabes wept and moaned and sobbed, Assad just stood there like a rock.

 

Now, I know this would blow your mind a bit; but maybe they made the deal because they had no choice in the matter considering that Turkey is literally invading Northern Syria to try and cleanse the region of any hope of a Kurdish state; even if it means committing a small bit of genocide?

Put it this way; this would damage US credibility on the foreign policy stage; since now allies would be hesitant on making agreements of this nature with the US. And yes, dictatorial governments like China and Russia do this all the time, but considering that the US has always been promoting itself as the leader of the free world (and the world in general by extension), this would be a huge self-own.

So basically just like conservatives and libertarians then?

 

Also, not really that he would be coming out "Smelling like a rose"; a lot of the military and GOP politicians are pretty damn irate with him for this self-own, and for good reason. The only people that really support what Trump is doing on this regard is Rand Paul (because it fits with his isolationist philosophy), and a huge chunk of the conservative voting base because for them it's not really an ideology so much as it is an identity, which means they'll support Trump no matter what, even when he makes policies and announcements that would contradict past policies and announcements he himself has made.

Turkey hasn't been on good terms with the U.S., nor a reliable ally for over fifteen years now, and it deteriorated fast after that failed coup in 2016.

 

Assad is Assad - My question has always been - what do the people of Syria want ? The people fighting for Assad have no love of Assad - although he may well be more popular now than before - but this matters not.

The people fight for Assad because they do not want Syria to turn into a Strict Sharia Islamic State.

 

Isolationism has been in the hearts of many Americans for generations and is nothing new. They also do not want to be the "World's Policeman", just as many others did not want them to be also.

Trump is merely carrying out the wishes of a great many of the people, left, right and center.. I doubt there will be many pro war marchers protesting on the streets. https://www.history.com/news/american-isolationism

 

I have stated something similar in previous threads - and if you go read a few of my posts in this thread you will get some more on this in this thread.

Some claim "Turkey would not go in with US troops embedded" I am not so sure about that - the pressure was rising in any case.

At the end of the day - Syria needs to be involved in this process

not sure I understand what you are trying to say in the second part of your post. What would damage US credibility and what is it that these dicatatorial Gov'ts do all the time ... ya lost me some where.

 

More truth than falsehood in what you say. I can live with it so far.

The basic idea behind what I have termed the "Moscow Project" is to bring Russia into an alliance to combat "Islam" in the ME, with certain Israelis (hedging their bets) and Russian-Israeli mafia figures and oligarchs fueling and supporting this project. In that sense, if "Israel" is America's true ally, and what they stand for is what America should be standing for, then the 'assumed premise' is indeed debatable.

Those are all false and faulty 'ifs'. America's true mission isn't to be either a neocon lackey for Israel and the military-industrial lobby or a so-called 'isolationist' (more accurately, 'pseudo-isolationist) one for the same purpose, working with the Russians to add a new foreign element to a power keg that is already overburdened with these foreign elements. All of them spinning more lies and tales about the region than anything resembling the truth.

Worse, there is a genuine 'fascistic' element that is being encouraged by all this. And that is as dangerous in the long run as the mayhem and bloodbaths that neocons have been bringing to the Middle East.

America cannot, in one single day, undo all that it has done wrong and find itself on the correct path. But instead of setting a trap for Edrogan to fall into, which eventually will only bring about greater isolation and economic warfare to Turkey, while encouraging the worst instincts in the Turks instead of their best, the US could have used its "considerable influence" to guide the Turks to a more reasonable approach to the whole issue. And that would have meant instead of encouraging the Turks to work with the Russians, to encourage them to work with the country the US has chosen to isolate everyone from, namely Iran.

Turkey and Iran, working together, can bring true peace and security to the region. Almost none of what you believe about Iran are true and even the ones that have seeds of truth won't be as true if Iran and Turkey work together in forging a genuine, endogenous, solution for the region's problems with America backing them in the endeavor. Instead of these binary choices all over the region, reflecting a war being waged by the pro Israel lobby against Iran, leading to various pro Iran forces all around the region to fight them, the solution in the region is what neocon propaganda (not actual actions) pretended to want to encourage: greater genuine democratization in the Middle East. Not by American arms or US/Israeli agendas, but encouraging the two most democratic Muslim powers in the region working together.

While true democratization will never produce Israeli friendly regimes in the ME, the two most democratic regimes in the region -- not counting the implanted, apartheid regime in Israel -- are the ones that can guide the process in what will ultimately be a genuinely stable, peaceful and productive path. Iran and Turkey, and not those America has chosen as its allies in the region, are the true democratic voices in the Middle East. What's more, even the non-democratic forces in each of them simply balance one another out: Turkey's non-democratic institutions are those which are bringing a non-existent "Islamic dictatorship" in Turkey, but those working with NATO, westernization, forced secularization of Turkey going back to the days of the Kemalist ideology which still underpins Turkey's constitutional design. Iran's non-democratic institutions simply represent the opposite side. If you let these two countries work together, and not bring more foreign powers to the table, everything would work out, including even for Israel. But not for Greater Israel. That project and dreams of American empire in the ME that go with it are no more the right answer to guide American foreign policy as would be handing the region to the Russians!

The war against Assad isn't really over. It is taking a new page and chapter. That war will be over when either the US decides its best interests are in what I have mentioned above. Or when it defeats Iran. The Russian 'middle-ground' position of taking Syria for themselves, working with the Israelis on their Greater Israel project, and allowing a "contained and neutered Iran" to lurk around is even less appealing and less susceptible of bringing peace and stability to the regions than anything the Americans have tried.

 

You lose your only allies Germany and Japan.

Even Israel is shocked how Trump betrayed the Kurds. Trump releases Isis terrorists

 

When you are a small war lord in an all out war, you join who ever you think is top dog and hope for crumbs.
If you do not, you are dead.
This is why they joined Assad, and this is why others joined ISIS, and this is why Assad joined Iran.
There is no idiology or any other western BS behind.
Simply wanting to stay alive and control others.
The ones who do not wish to rule others just left everything behind and run away.
They are refugees everywhere.

 

Much of what you say is true. You fall off the horse when you talk ideology though. Ideology had a big role in the Holy Jihad that was conducted in Syria.

 

Germany is not an ally. Germany is a parasite of the US.
Israel knows it has to defend itself and cannot trust anybody else to do it for her.
Unlike Germany, Israel doesnt ask American troups to protect her.

 

You think in wester terms.
Idiology is just the marketing guys work.
Think of it as that.
I will give you some examples:
Say you are a simple pillager and your commander comws one day and say, from now we rape and pillage for El-Bagdadi rather for Sadam-Husain, what do you do?
You do what you are told to do and are happy, you survive and even get to loot from time to time.
Now say you are a small town war lord and they tell you El-Bagdadi is coming, what do you do?
You welcome his teoups with rice and tell them, I control a force of 50 strong, may I join you?
Another example:
You are a big war lord, controlling an nice chunk of a big city, and they come to you and say, El-Bagdadi is coming, you rejoice!
Previously, you worked for that godless Sadam, but he was killed by the Americans. The Iranians who replaced him do not want you, but now you can join again a big force and loot and pillage as much as ypu want.
Sure you go for it.
You are a little sad maybe you cannot drink any more, but weed is legal and it can do.
So here you go, idiology is to explain the villagers why you rape their kids and westener idiot recrutes.
The real game is different.

 

Please tell this to voters going into 2020.

 

Assad should have been deposed and Russia never should have had a chance to gain a foothold in Syria. Trump has been failing miserably in Syria from day one. Now he's topped it all off with betrayal of our close allies in combating ISIS as well as Assad, and is attempting to throw them under the bus the way he has thrown his former American partners under the bus. He has harmed them immediately and he is harming our nation strategically, once again giving the rest of the world a reason not to trust us as allies and partners.

Everything Trump does harms us and helps our adversaries. Every single ******ned thing!