Trump says US will ‘destroy’ Iranian gunboats that harass American ships

Good for them. Swimming's great exercise. Must be especially invigorating for a desert people.

Don't know why Iranian Monitor is so defensive about a sinking Iranian Navy.

 

Prosecuting homosexuals for being homosexual? Even for engaging in private homosexual conduct? Another of the myriad of false tales spun in the western media by the usual suspects. A completely false assertion that is taken as gospel because of how often it is reported. With some even claiming Iran executes homosexuals. None of it is true. I know: I am a lawyer, well aware of both the Iranian legal provisions that proscribe sodomy and how they are designed to be impossible to enforce. And how they are never enforced.

To tie this to the military and bring it closer to the issues on this thread. If you are a homosexual, you are entitled to claim (up to you) an exemption from mandatory military service on that ground. Until a few years ago, hundreds of thousands of individuals (many who weren't homosexual by any means), trying to avoid mandatory service, would do so claiming exemption on this ground. It became a major problem for military recruitment so Iran's military changed the regulations to deter false claims for such exemptions: now, to be exempt from military service, you have to also prove you have engaged in sodomy and it isn't enough just to claim you are homosexual. Despite the fact that Iran supposedly executes and punishes homosexuals, thousands of people who sign statements admitting to sodomy and homosexual conduct (and even give details about it to prove they are homosexual) regularly recieve their exemptions. Yet, none of them have ever been prosecuted despite the case against them (if the laws in fact allowed -- realistically and not some moral stricture that can't be enforced -- prosecution on such grounds) being as open and shut as can be. Now, instead, the gay right activist groups (while making the false propaganda assertions still) complain that these new regulations invade their privacy rights and because their exemption cards identify the grounds for exemption, might cause some discrimination in future employment.

I can cite you the laws on this issue. I can tell you the facts. But you will have a thousand reports and outrageous lies from the western media in western accounts, to "prove" me wrong. From that exchange you will go convinced that I am engaging in "propaganda" for the regime (where Iran's regime, in fact, never tries to properly respond to this issue because -- as a moral statement -- Iran does condemn homosexual conduct) and I will be ever more convinced that the truth about Iran is buried under propaganda and lies.

http://6rang.org/english/2261
Confessing to having same-sex relations is the new norm for military service exemptions in Iran

 

I leave aside the premise, which confuses a paper tiger/bully with the real thing, and take your question at face value. I will respond to it in 2 different ways -- and you tell me which one works for you?

On one level, the answer depends on what you value most? Iran's Supreme Leader is no spring chicken. None of us are immortal and we all leave this life and the material world one day. Those who have been well trained to value (above all else) their treats (kind of like the way we train our pets), and whose instincts for survival blinds them to the fact that ultimately we are all, individually, fighting a losing battle against time and human mortality, may be a lot more risk averse (even when other things they value is threatened) than others. And then there are those who value some things above both these treats and even their lives. Who view the material world in a very different light and who aren't willing to bow to bullies or those who threaten them by virtue of mere threats. I don't know Iran's Supreme Leader personally, so I can't comment about his philosophy in life although his public pronouncements and even private conduct (observed regularly by even his foes) suggest he isn't much into 'treats' nor all that enamored with the 'material world' as the 'be all and end all' of everything. Personally, I value the truth and, besides that, the main pull of the material world on me is how well or poorly I have fulfilled my responsibility to my family or anyone else who I am somehow responsible for in any issue. That is my philosophy by which I judge which actions are smart or not. Don't know about your's?

On a different level, less philosophical and more worldly, I could also point out that these two men -- the POTUS and Iran's Supreme Leader -- while not necessarily anywhere as 'smart' as they imagine themselves to be (especially Trump), can't be all that stupid at least when it comes to their personal self interest if they have managed to climb the ladder of their respective countries political systems and reach such positions. So I will let their respective reactions to Iran's missile strike speak for itself. Now, even the smartest of us (in terms of protecting/promoting our personal self-interests) ultimately can fail and end up where others such as Saddam have ended up. But those examples actually show self-interested bullies who met bigger bullies than them. No one can pretend Saddam was uninterested in the material world and its treats! And because he valued those things too much, he actually lost his nerves when he had to face the music (during Desert Storm, where instead of fighting the US in Kuwait city when the ground invasion was to start, he ordered his troops to march into the highway of death; and then in 2003, almost pleading and begging the US not to invade Iraq, capitulating to every demand and then, when the invasion came anyway, by hiding in a hole!). As such, he didn't avoid the fate that none of us can avoid, but he ended up finding himself captured in rather ignominious conditions before (what he blamed as "Iranian agents") put the noose over his neck and had him hang for his real crimes and not those the US likes to pretend where his crimes.

 

Hope they're good swimmers.

 

Yeah well, Vietnam, Korea, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Cuba, Russia, Afghanistan, Iran (the first time) …. all of them were supposed to be ‘destroyed’ by the U.S. if they so much as lift a finger. They’ve all lifted a whole lot of fingers, hands, and arms but they were never destroyed.

 

Your little one-liners and pictures work only because they build on a mountain of lies, propaganda, spin and half truths about Iran directed at an already indoctrinated group. On this particular issue, a half-truth as opposed to an outright lie.

Iran is a country of 85 million people and has its share of crime, including robbery, theft and other crimes that can (in extraordinary circumstances) carry these kind of punishments. But how many people actually have their fingers amputated in Iran? According to even the propaganda organs paid by the US government, from whose site the picture you had posted comes, a total of 215 over the last 10 years or something like 21 such cases per year.

Left unreported in the propaganda organs are these salient facts: Those who do receive the punishment are recidivists/career criminals who, in some other places, are locked up for life under things like "3 strikes and you are out". Even for stealing small sums of money. In Iran, instead of locking them up for life, those who are not just recidivist but also found impossible to 'rehabilitate', and who haven't been caught merely with their hands in the cookie jar but those who have done really harm, can receive this punishment.

Frankly, if I was offered the choice of spending my life in an American prison as a recidivist or having my fingers amputated, I would choose the latter. I can hardly imagine a worse punishment for any human being than spending their lifetime in an American jail and, yet, the US has the largest prison population in the world. Over 2 million people in American prisons.

 

Since my post about the latest humanoid robot developed by Iran, elicited a response of posting a picture of a 'finger amputating machine' in Iran, I wonder what this will elicit?

These are very neat videos!

The first one shows the top 20 countries in the Math Olympiad, tracking them from the first time they even started participating in the competition. Iran, a very late comer to the competition, starting much later in 1991, already ahead of many countries that started earlier and in the middle of the top 20 pack. This, from a country in a region where you don't have any country that is even remotely close to the top 20 other than Iran. (Israel was among the top 20 only when few other countries even participated in the competition. Now, it is way below not just Iran but all the others in the top 20 list).



This other one does the same for the physics Olympiad. Again, you won't find a single country from the entire ME anywhere close to the top 20 it overall medals. Again, despite the fact that Iran is a late comer to the competition, it already ranks pretty high (#10 on the list and #9 if you don't count the USSR medal count, as they don't exist anymore! Russia is also in the final tally at #2).


p.s.
I have posted the ones for Math and Physics. This one is in Chemistry. The same story. In chemistry, in fact, the US is just 1 Gold medal ahead of Iran!

 

My story is simple and straight forward, even though it is a challenge to get over the mountain of propaganda which you guys have been indoctrinated in. That story is told best perhaps by the videos I posted on Math, Physics, and Chemistry Olympiads.

Iran has a huge body of very capable of scientists, engineers, mathematicians, physicists, and more. It ranks among the top countries in the world in many of these fields. The totally baseless attempts to link everything produced in Iran, and the trolling by the US propaganda organs notwithstanding, Iran can do quite fine on its own -- and every weapon or equipment built in Iran doesn't need to be linked by fallacious stories to work done in some foreign country.

 

The U.S. does not "destroy" other nations. And in this case we haven't threatened to "destroy" Iran. Just some of their small gun boats.

 

Well, the U.S. did destroy Iraq for no good reason (other than a lie about WMD's) although we all know it was for their oil. It has also come close to destroying in many other instances, but I understand what you are saying.

 

74% of all Iranian finger-amputees have said, “گه مقدس Thank Allah I don’t live in the U.S. !"

 

Iraq was never destroyed. And claiming the U.S. wanted Iraqi oil is ridiculous at best.

 

El wrongo.... we destroyed the Iraqi military, we were well on our way to creating a stable government and country when foreign fighters started the insurgency that lead to Isis which destroyed the country , and Syria for that matter.. also it is well known and ignored fact that.
1. WMDS were not a lie
2. Some WMDS were actually found , Saddam didn't know where they were but they did actually have some.

 

Trump has warned Iran through the years, using different, colorful language -- and those warnings haven't been confined to 'small gun boats". They have included phrases like "obliteration like you have never seen before", the "official end of Iran", and have also veered into threatening even Iran's cultural sites. Not that it matters what words Trump uses. And it isn't just Trump: many in his administration, including folks who have since left, such as "General" Flynn, Bolton and others have mouthed off various warnings to Iran in the same vain.

Don't know about that, but I do know that 100% of them are repeat offenders and hardened criminals who would receive life imprisonment under '3 strikes and you are out' statutes in many US states without anyone in the US questioning their punishment. Unlike the cases where 3 strikes and you are out legislation has put people in prison for life for rather petty crimes.

 

Good Trump!

 

That's a myth.

 

The U.S. completely destroyed Iraq's infrastructure.

"Wanting Iraqi oil"? Is that what I said? Read again.

With regards to ridiculous claims about U.S. interest in illegally invading Iraq I can suggest that you uncoat your eyes of butter, remove the garlic from your nose, and silver from your ears. Do not believe the lies about Iraq. There were no WMD's and the U.S. government knew that otherwise they wouldn't have made up so many lies and concocted so much false evidence. It was all about Iraqi oil. If you don't know that then you have much to learn.

 

What false evidence?

Those who claim the Bush Admin. lied about WMDs in Iraq have never thought through their argument. To believe that you have to believe that

1) The Bush Admin. lied about WMDs in Iraq.
2) In order to justify the invasion of Iraq.
3) An invasion that would inevitably expose that lie.

It makes no logical sense.

And most of Iraq's infrastructure damage was due to a combination of 12 years of sanctions and 12 years of Saddam Hussein's criminal mismanagement and corruption.

Besides which, there is more to a nation than its "infrastructure".

 

Yes. You are right. My mistake. I was wrong. It is closer to 100% of Iranian finger-amputees who thank Allah they don't live in the U.S.

 

1. Fake classified satellite photos.

2. Faked intercepted telephone conversation.

* I am not going to write out the whole list ….

He did.

That’s right.

And that is exactly what happened.

The U.S. government doesn't care about that. They got their hands on Iraq's oil fields and that is all that mattered to them.

Wrong. The U.S. intentionally targetted every organ of Iraq’s infrastructure and did nothing to protect its historical heritage.

Says you.

 

I don't have a 'firm number' either, but watch this video. It focuses on drills using swarm tactics by large number of speedboats.

 

I count ~55ish in the wide angle shot around the barge. I suspect a handful of MH-60s would have a field day turning that number into driftwood.

 

Lets agree to disagree on how a battle like the one you have in mind will unfold, but while Iran reportedly has thousands of speedboats, it will not be using all of them against a target at once. The number will be closer to what is shown in that drill. But those speedboats will not be operating alone. They will be backed by a lot of forces you don't see (e.g., a fleet of over 30 smaller subs plus several larger ones), as well as some which you can if you play close enough attention. And others which we have discussed (e.g., anti-ship ballistic missiles) before.

In the genre of smaller craft for purposes of these swarming tactics, besides manned speedboats, Iran has many unmanned ones too. As well as 'flying boats' which hover close to the water and are very hard to detect, such as these.


But whether 'theory' and practice will resemble one another or not, once the fire starts, Iran will also be counting on these forces in its 'counterattack".

 

Where has "thousands" been reported? I have yet to see any documentation for this claim.

 

Their only response should be to know that their pathetic JOKE gunships will in fact be ELIMINATED from the sea by the almighty United States Navy in a VERY efficient manner, if they continue to play with adults.