Trump to Pull Thousands of U.S. Troops From Germany

Correct, they are not needed, because they do everything but not defend Germany or NATO at us ... but you need these bases in Germany for your global interests .
And as told ... in contrary to Trump, Putin as despot he is for sure, holds his given word.
Trump tells only lies and fake news and ends any agreements and contracts as he wants ... and still did this way as business man too once.

Trump is the world champion in quickly turning decades old alliances and friendships into enemieship.
You can talk always to friends about problems and find solutions ... but since the bastard Trump only accepts one friend, namely the one in the mirror when he stands in front of them, he gives a crap on such things and spreads a drum fire of fake news and lies and Insults to proof his attacks.
And then Trumponians wonder that Germany and all the other "victims" of its impudent behavior do not surrender to its alleged omnipotence and will? Seriously?

He and his fans are not interested in simple facts and truths about how Germany has the highest defense expenditures in EUR / USD after the USA and that it will only be compulsory to meet the 2% in 2024.

Sure ... if you give up all of your activities, i.e. your global interests in the world, then you also no longer need these bases ... which you use almost exclusively for this anyway and not for any alleged defense of Germany and / or NATO ... as the idiot Trump claims.
And we can live very well without the US soldiers ... also because they don't defend us anyway ... and honestly: What of the (still) 34,500 soldiers are combat troops is less powerful than the NYPD in New York !

 

I don't think they would. I just threw that in because the OP prefers a relationship with Russia rather then the US.

 

As you wrote ... the OP = me was prefering about better realtionship with Russia and not telling to make a military alliance with them or even to give them the empty Ramstain Air Base if the US pulls totally out from Germany or something like this!
Even I would not be totally against it at least ... but better no alliance or only one with real friends we still have.

The point and the proven fact is that Donald Trump has been threatening my country, blackmailing it, insulting it, violating treaties and spreading lies about my country without end ever since he took office ... and although he has German ancestors (from Bavaria), he shows that he hates Germany!

OK, someone who does not like us is not new and he is not the first and the last one ... and we actually only laugh at these boring, as well as ridiculous insults with reference to the bad Nazi Germans from 70 years ago done by those who have a problem with it that we are a sovereign country which als says "Nein" (means No) ... but weird that Putin said nothing of the sort to this day as Trump, even though he had more than enough reason for what the wrong partisanship in Ukraine and the sanctions that my country has also pronounced and obeyed.
On the contrary ... Putin has never broken his word against us! And besides that, Putin can even speak the German language!

Do you have any questions or need further clarification?

 

No questions.

 

Good ... even there is no hope that you accept that Trump is a big liar only, I know.
But I'm not a missionary who wants to rid the unteachable of false ideas like here at this topic ... it's just wasted time.

 

Did they complete the oil pipeline? Once they install the nipple, Germany will become Russia's infant. If it came down to it, Germany would never side with the US and risk being cut off. Putin keeps his word 100% of the time according to those he allows to live!

Politics aside, I love my Russian and German friends.

 

The "Russian energy weapon" is only a made-up threat. Germany has natural gas storages which offer a buffer for at least 3 months and we have quite a lot old coal plants which are out of use but still maintained (Stille Reserve) and they can be back in action in less than 3 weeks. We would mess up our CO² credibility but Russia would lose a customer who always paid their bills in the last 50 years.

 

You have a good point, but only in times of peace. I certainly hope it stays that way.

 

Regarding Russia, there are quite a few things that people who are not familiar with this topic completely ignore or simply don't understand. Germany and Russia (Soviet Union) have been trade partners for one and a half centuries, and that includes WWI and WWII. Even during the height of the cold war, the Soviet Union proved to be an extremely reliable trade partner, and so has today's Russia until tensions increased in the last few years. Russia's economy hasn't been very stable for many years, even decades. The country needs foreign money and all they can do is sell those two things they have - arms and natural resources. Hardly anybody in the world is interested in Russian cars and one cannot keep an economy with 145 mill. people half-way stable by selling apples to Turkey.
Russia, therefore, is dependend on potent business partners that can pay for Russian oil and/or gas. There is a lot to be criticized about Putin but the man is not an idiot, he has been on the international stage for decades and it doesn't make any sense to bite hand that feeds him. In Putin's perfect world, Europe should be financially solvent and politically not unified. That would make things great for him. It's in Moscow's interest to have European trade partners that bring money to Russia. This "Russia is going to invade Europe next week" narrative and all the nonsense that goes along with it ("we protect them from Putin") is complete nonsense. It's a nice rhetorical stunt for Us domestic politics and a certain awfully uninformed audience in the new world.

 

Explain to me why Russia would go to war with Europe. It is not the Soviet Union, which could draw millions of soldiers from its satellite Warsaw pact countries.
Europe is one of the biggest energy customer of Russia. It guaranties very important hard currency. If Russia would cut off Europe it would go instantly bankrupt.
Germany is a distribution hub of Russian gas. The gas goes all over Europe. The European companies involved, get a broker fee.
Now the US fracking industry is in deep trouble, because gas and oil prices are in the basement. They file Chapter 11 so fast it has become a race who is first. The largest company in Oklahoma just filed 11.
Now Congress wants more sanctions including Turk Stream.

By the way they have resumed construction on Nord Stream. It will be finished.

 

Good points, but still no reason to keep our soldiers there.

 

It is the complete misunderstanding, that this pipeline will only deliver gas to Germany. There is already a Nord Stream and the old Line through East Europe, from the Soviet times.
Both lines a good enough to supply Germany. But Germany has become a gas hub for the rest of Europe. Basically all the pipe lines from the southern fields, norther fields and eastern fields go through Germany. From the Meds, Red See and Scandinavian and Russian.
Google the NG pipeline Network in Europe and you will understand.
Take a map of Europe, why was Germany for centuries the battle field of Europe, because of its location.
Now Germany is the logistic hub of Europe, because of its location.
If you drive from the North to the South you have to through Germany, same from East to West, and naturally the other way around.

That is why the US has its largest logistical centers, outside the US, in Germany.
The US is the largest military in NATO. But Germany is the most important part of NATO, LOCATION, it is the Spider in the web.

 

George Freedman of Stratfor once said, that US policy has always been to keep Germany and Russia separated. After Merkel's actions in Ukraine and the sanctions, Putin pivoted to China. Germany's loss was China's gain.

 

.

You must be joking? We've been supporting ISIS so we can keep the war going on in Syria until the country ceases to exist. Whenever the Syrian army was defeating ISIS, all the terrorists had to do was have a false flag chemical attack. This would give Washington the excuse it needed to bomb the Syrians, so it could even out the playing field and keep the war going on.

So much for peace and freedom American style.

Fight and strife is my name
and chaos is my game.

I gear them all to kill and maim
and then covertly flip the blame
to you.

So even though I am insane,
and only think of my own gain,
there is no shame.
It's in your name
and there's nothing you can do. - Jeannette

​

 

O .... Northstream now as topic? You do me really this favor to show that your words, accusing and blabberng about ... what is in content the same mental garbage as told by Trump ... to refute? Great ... thanks!

YOU ... the United States will be active as soon as someone starts dancing in your back yard without permission ... i.e. the Caribbean and Central America. Then you give only one damn to every sovereignty and every international law and there are damn many examples of this ... a bit warm from the actuality the Iranian tankers and before that Russian military advisers in Venbezuela, which lets right wingers call you directly for military measures because that's forbidden. Really? Why? Is Venezuela the 51st state?
I could name many other things ... Nicaragua, Guatemala, Cuba, Honduras, Panama, Chile, Grenada ... everywhere you have your military deployed and / or directly / indirectly ensured that your bloody dictators ("El Prsidente ") stay in power, or vice versa, unpleasant regimes and governments are overthrown.
Funny ... but it's really funny when you dance in the front yard of Russia, then should Russia accept all of this? Seriously? Who the hell do you think you are? What give you any right to dance in the Ukraine or in Georgia for example, eh?

Or Syria? Great ... Assad as a bloody dictator he is, Syria is friend and area of Russian interest since 50 years (and friend with Iran since 40 years) and so it is their task there! You want that your areas of interest are respected by the others, then start to respect the areas of the others too! And any hint like Assad is a bastard ... he is a bastard for sure ... is uninteresting as any sort of reason, as far as you support same sort of bastards elsewhere!

Or the INF contract and the claimed existing medium range missiles of Russia? Could be that they are such missiles ... but so what? You have stationed Tomahawk missiles in Poland and Romania long before and Tomahawk missiles are what again, eh?
And also ... still under the war gangster Bush Jr., the USA placed their anti missile shield in Poland and Romania ... and reasoned it with "to protect NATO allies against these evil Iranian and North Korean missiles who threat Europe!
What an infamous sort of lie ... neither was any missile in Iran or North Korea with such a range existing, nor is it more as questionable if they still exist today in case of Iran ... and maye North Korea has since about 2 years some of such missiles! So ... against whom was this anti missile shield then placed, eh?
Right ... Russia, but to name Russia at this time was not possible, because there was no Russian act given to reason it with any evil Russia did this and that!

And so ... North Stream was agreed and as contract signed between Russia and Germany at a time when Russia was not infamous way declared to be any sort of threat or likely enemy! The only one who was against was Poland, but who cares, because Poland hates (with some reason) Russia since ever and mostly they were upset, because it was a threat for the existing gas pipeline on land running through their country ...
but that it is the same sort of Russian gas in this pipeline as running through North Stream is unimportant.... AND I DID NOT READ OR HEAR ANY ACCUSE OF TRUMP THAT POLAND DEPENDS TOTALLY ON RUSSIAN GAS, EH???

Germany is an independent and sovereign country and we can conclude within the UN treaties (keyword: embargoes imposed by the UN) with whom we want and when we want. Or is there such an UN embargo that North Stream prohibits us?
No, that does not exist!
Get it in your head in the USA that we have the same rights as you and accept it, that the times are over, where we depend on you so much, that we dance on your played music!
And certainly we not let us be threatened, blackmailed, insulted by such ungrateful Americans ... and fired at with a drum fire of lies and fake news like this bastard Trump!

 

Still no reason to keep them there.

 

There is no reason for Germany to want them to stay but a lot for the US military. Trump is motivating the EU coutries to merge their armies faster, a good thing. We should be able to secure Europe and project power in the neighbouring regions. 1 million soldiers, 200 million € military budget and nukes the EU 27 has, we just have to use all this better and we will.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_Structured_Cooperation

 

Bunker Boy and his erratic and plain stupid politics are just playing into the hands who want a more united EU.
With UK out that can now happen on the military side, too and Bunker Boy is holding the stirrup.

 

... And still no reason to want them here too with such circumstances!
You want to blackmail us with a retreat? OK, then go ... we can without you same way, simply because you defend nothing in Europe in reality since 20 years. But can you do without loosing your capacities for your initernational interests? No, because you depend on these bases in Germany ...!

A good example is the Franco-German Brigade or the Durch-German Brigade. It works ... and more and more such things are a little European / EU NATO inside the NATO without any US soldiers involved in them...
What is not wondering, because what the US has left in Europe as combat units still since many years is only a joke.

Indeed ... a deep united EU is a nightmare for many in the US, because much stronger as the US is and will ever be. Still currently the EU ... as an in core economic Union is in economics much stronger as the US is by pure digits.
As Bunker Boy still told when being CEO of his corporation ... "when I make a negotiation and contract and the other one is somehow happy with it, I did a wrong job because I could have a better result!"
Well ... questionable behavior in business, but to act this way in diplomacy between countries is worst what you can do. It does not only damage the relationships heavy, it builds also trenches!

Let me play the devil's lawyer ...
If the USA completely withdraws from Germany and most or even all other EU member countries that are also NATO members ... not all EU members are also NATO members (e.g. Austria, Finland, Sweden), like not all European NATO Members are also members of the EU (e.g. UK and Norway) ... and possibly the days of NATO are counted, what then?
The USA will also lose the last remaining influence in Europe and the views and opinions of Washington are then no more interesting for Europeans than the views of Chile or South Korea!
Certainly a lot of exports go to the USA ... but as the colleagues of the British Pro-Brexit Group do not get tired of saying, you can also enter into new relationships or intensify others as a replacement ... especially since the USA in the self-isolation then chosen have lost their importance on the planet anyway.

 

If the US pulls out of Germany than NATO is dead. The US would loose its supply and logistic infrastructure.
The Western bases would be cut of, from the Eastern.
That is why Germany is the logistic and supply hub for the US/Nato.

Germany has combined troops and commands with several East European countries, too.
It flies always past our US friends here, that Europe has slowly built its own military infrastructure outside NATO.
Every time Bunker Boy throws one of his childish tissy fits he strengthens that effort and weakens US influence.

 

It's funny - you created this thread to grieve about bad Trump withdrawing troops and to puff your chest about you not caring about it!

 

I'd pull out all most of the 34,500, or all.

Good catch. But somewhat underestimating the number of troops isn't much of an error.

Ok, why are we doing so many operations worldwide? Why do we need almost 40,000 troops to maintain a base? Why not just a couple thousand instead?

They are never going to put in 2%. They always promise but it never happens. We should be investing less too and shutting down a few bases.

NATO isn't just about the NATO budget which is very small. Its about having decent militaries so countries can support each other.

 

Cool what? This dumbass tries to blackmail us with the withdrawal of the US troops and it not only fizzles out completely ineffectively ... it is even doing a favor for many Germans!
In soccer it's called an own goal, what Trump does there!

And yes ... I started this thread to make it clear how much this bastard is just lying and spreading fake news ... lies and fake news, which are also believed by his fans in the USA, often because most of them have no interest in the real facts and truth and believe Trump every BS.

 

As I would kik all of them out ... good!

No ... of course not much of an error as nothing of his proven lies and fake news not much of an orror for his fans ...I know!

Because you want to have control on this planet, you do so much operations ... and about why so much troops to maintain these bases, no idea, ask your Generals and High Breass in Pentagon why, not me!

Good to know that you can look into future of year 2024 ... and the next lie: We never promised it in the past AND BEFORE AGREEMENT OF WALES IN 2014 THERE WAS NO DUTY EXISTING TO INVEST 2% OF GDP!
AND aside this fact, after the USA we invest most money in EUR / USD into our own military in NATO ... also hidden by Trump and his supporters ... but no worries ... our current spending in military could reach maybe next year these 2% without spending 1 Cent more, due to lesser tax income of the state = lesser GDP. Pure mathematics ... and then? We have fullfilled but you ungrateful USA will complain further and firther and further ...

And you will lesser invest? Please do it!

Correct ... but also this BATO budget is point of anger at Trump and he insults us for it. But hey ... when we both spend same mones in this NATO budget, maybe your privilege that always an American 4 star General is C in C of NATO can then be eleminated too and German 4 star Genera can become too? I know ... what an impudent thought and question of me, eh?

And you know that we took over most of the missions from you in NATO which you still was not willing to fullfill as your duty? So who is supporting each other at least? The Europeans mostly alone without any US troops!

 

Good post, every word is true!
Look on US troop reduction during the last ... let us take last 20 years and compare of what was once placed in Germany (and Europe in total) and what is left these days. All the missions and tasks what the US had self given to them in NATO in Europe were all given back to the Europeans and here mostly to Germany. Out of this, Germany starts with iths friends and partners in NATO to build up its own military structure.

It started about 30 years ago with the Franco-German Brigade

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-German_Brigade

which has become from a more political issue to a real combat unit in service as for exampke in Mali in anti terror war ...

and then followed by the Dutch.German Army Corps

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I._German/Dutch_Corps

which is a real marriage of both military in big and small scale ... for example the left over Dutch Leopard 2 tanks are forming a company withing a German tank battalion which is again inside a Dutch Brigade and this withing the named Durch-German Corps!

And the Leopard 2 tank again is a good example too, because Germany has reduced due to contracts and agreements after end of cold war its 5,000 tank fleet of 1990 ... 2,500 Leopard 1, 2,200 Leopard 2, rest several modernized versions of the old American M48 tank ... down to 250 and soon again 320 Leopard 2 A6 and A7 tanks. Where were these about 2,000

Where did these 2,000 surplus Leopard 2 (then A4 version) go? Most of the NATO allies were modernized with them ... be it that the Leopard 1 used there so far was replaced ... be it that it replaced Russian devices like the T-72 or replace other devices like American M -48 or M-60. It wasn't the big business, because the sale didn't bring much profit ... but it did modernize the respective armed forces considerably. And of course the USA was also annoyed because it significantly reduced the sale of their M1 Abrams ... (compare number of users M1 and Leopard 2 including variants)!

Or as last of many more examples the Air refuelling planes where the Europeans work close together with their fleet of Airbus tanker planes in one unit with own command structure and without any US tanker plane involved.