UK Sovereignty

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Flanders, Jan 15, 2013.

  1. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

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    I said the Parliament not the people. Anyway it's a really tasteless looking building. Actually the majority of workers on oil rigs are not actually Scottish. I know this because I used to work as an assistant to a rig manager.

    Anyway with the dissolution of the parliament Scotland would come under laws made by London. Also it would prevent a huge wastage as the Scottish budget does mostly from the Her majesty's treasury.

    Anyway could you elaborate as to your disagreement with my opinion?
     
  2. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    OK, I'll bite. How am I a "Yankee serf" or how will I become one?
     
  3. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The current UK government will do whatever it is told to do by the Yanks, as has been the case for every government since Thatcher's. The State is engaged in a vicious class-war of the rich against the majority and cannot survive on its own, whereas, in the EU, the people will have some minor voice. If we leave the EU we will simply become yankee cannon-fodder, fighting their oil-crusades for them. That's fact: the rest is newspaper gesture.
     
  4. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    "The current government".

    That's just one reason why I'm not a supporter of any party that has been in government, and let's not forget, it's the current government and its predecessors that have given the EU the right to tell it and its successors what to do. If we stay in the EU we are simply serfs in an anti-democratic, corrupt bureaucracy, in which we have an all too easily ignored voice and that's just too craven for me. I'd rather take my chances as an independent country. We're not obliged to be anyone's (*)(*)(*)(*)(*), but I have no objection to Wales remaining in the EU if that's what the Welsh want.

    Thanks for answering.
     
  5. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unfortunately you are not the English Goivernment, so it is immaterial. We have representatives in Europe, none in America.
     
  6. Sixteen String Jack

    Sixteen String Jack New Member

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    Unles they're MEPs who are riding the EU gravy train, of course.
     
  7. Sixteen String Jack

    Sixteen String Jack New Member

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    And if the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish are to have their own parliaments and assemblies then either England should have its own parliament or Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs should be banned from voting on England-only matters at the UK Parliament at Westminster.

    I find it an absolute affront to democracy in England that Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs are all able to vote on matters which concern only England but, because Scotland, Wales and NI each has its own parliament or assembly, English MPs are not allowed a say on matters which concern just each of those countries.

    A perfect example of this is when Scottish MPs at Westminster (mainly Labour MPs) voted IN FAVOUR of introducing university tuition fees in England in 2004. Their votes were just about enough to lead to tuition fees being introduced in England. So tuition were foisted upon the English by Scottish Labour MPs (the Conservatives, most of whom voted against the introduction of tuition fees in England, were absolutely incensed by those Scottish Labour MPs). Yet MSPs in the Scottish parliament voted AGAINST the introduction of tuition fees in Scotland - and, of course, English MPs had no say on the matter, even though Scottish MPs were allowed to vote on whether or not to introduce tuition fees in England (and they voted in FAVOUR of doing so). This is absolutely disgraceful.

    This despicable attack on democracy in England can only be killed off if either England is given its own parliament or Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs are barred from voting on England-only issues - issues which don't concern their own nations - at Westminster.
     
  8. Sixteen String Jack

    Sixteen String Jack New Member

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    Considering that the Scottish Parliament building (which was opened three years late - in 2004 rather than 2001 - at a cost of £414 million to the mainly English taxpayer, far higher than the original estimated cost of £10 million) was once voted the fourth-ugliest building in the UK (beaten only by the Birmingham Bullring, Birmingham Central Library and the Angel of the North) such an attack on it would probably actually improve it aesthetically.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Sixteen String Jack

    Sixteen String Jack New Member

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    Hopefully we'll soon have none in the EU (Europe is a continent), too.

    And, as has already been mentioned, England has no government or parliament. So either you are completely unaware as to how the UK works or you are deliberately being misleading.
     
  10. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    England has a Parliament which has imposed the will of its moneyed masters on the rest of us for centuries, as you know. There are a few tiny minorities representing the others in the English Parliament, but their wishes are, as you know, always over-ridden.
     
  11. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

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    Good god it's even uglier up close. We could of actually, you know helped people with money we put into it.

    I feel robbed.
     
  12. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    The UK has a parliament, voted for by the people of the UK. The English have no parliament, or even an Assembly. It's not the fault of the English that there are more of us. Do you really think the tiny few minorities should be able to override the wishes of the majority?
     
  13. Sixteen String Jack

    Sixteen String Jack New Member

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    No, it doesn't.
     
  14. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    The Guardian's then architectural critic said it was to be the "finest building new building in Scotland for many years ... a rich, complex and crafted design,as much landscape as architecture, a building that will connect the city centre emotionally and physically to the hills beyond, expressing Edinburgh's embodiment of Scotland's political and cultural will."

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2003/aug/11/architecture.regeneration

    Alex Salmond was less than complimentary about the design, the cost and the site.

    http://www.building.co.uk/news/snp-slams-scots-parliament-as-cost-estimates-hit-£230m/2247.article

    There was actually a competition to find the best design. It doesn't say much for the losers!
     
  15. Sixteen String Jack

    Sixteen String Jack New Member

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    The losing designs were probably much nicer than the winning design.

    It's just that the people who decide which new buildings to put up in modern Britain usually, for reasons best know only to themselves, choose the ugliest design.

    It's no wonder that Prince Charles has spoken out against all these ugly modern buildings - or "carbuncles", as he calls them - that are being erected.
     
  16. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry - double post.
     
  17. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think that the other nations of the UK - including Cornwall - should - after a vote about identity in disputed areas - be represented in their own parliaments and that of the EU, leaving the English Parliament at Westminster to replace itself with an American Gauleiter, as Thatcher intended.
     
  18. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As you know, England has the Westminster Parliament, which its masters entirely dominate, where it decides to do whatever the USA requires.
     
  19. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    Again, Iolo, should the wishes of the majority be subordinate to the wishes of the minority? That is what you want, isn't it?

    In reality, we must do whatever the EU requires. The Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat parties have given it the legal right to tell us what to do, and I haven't noticed Plaid Cymru getting upset about it. The EU now has a huge body of law which is superior to British law complete with a court to sit in judgement over us. The US has no such rights over us. Take your blinkers off and stop spouting nonsense!
     
  20. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    Cornwall isn't a nation and there is no support for parliaments in the rest of the UK. You have no idea what Thatcher intended. Socialists lost their perspective where Thatcher was concerned long ago.
     
  21. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

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    I think that we should have one parliament for the UK with exception to N. Ireland.
    However I would also want a cultural council to ensure that local heritage remains intact which I'm sure there already is.

    Honestly I can't blame Scots and Welshmen for wanting to cling to their respective assemblies due to incompetance of Westminster over the past 10-15 years.
     
  22. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Like most people, I want to be shot of your flabby etonian bankers' bumboys, since you ask.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Well, want must be your portion.
     
  23. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cornwall is a lot more of a nation than the unrelated bits labelled 'England', and that's a fact. Thatcher intended to destroy decency and make the yanks masters, as you know. From her childhood she was eaten up with hatred and spite, like all right-wingers. You try and get rid of the Senedd and see where it gets you, Eva!
     
  24. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

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    I don't actually understand what you mean by that. Could you elaborate for me?
     
  25. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    Whether you keep the National Assembly for Wales or not is not something I care either way about. And like so many socialists, you have a twisted view of what Thatcher stood for.
     

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