Ukrainian Army Shells Donetsk Residential Areas With Massive Artillery Fire

still wasnt russian back then....btw, catherine the great hated russians, she was german ....seems russians cant even run their own house...lol.

 

Dream on Talon!

 

Oh, so she hated the Russians? Thanks for that bit of information. My gosh what would we do without you?

Anyway, ignoring your latest 'brilliance', she was put into power by the Preobransky Regiment. She did expand the Russian Empire - and that is why she's called Catherine the Great.

 

Well I dont claim to be perfect....but thanks for the compliment....speaking of "brilliance", I'm sure you can provide proof of those riots and refugees you claimed??

Please provide....

 

Rumour was that Khrushchev was flaming drunk and gave Crimea to Ukraine as a one of those stupid grandiose gestures you do when drunk and then regret the next day like promising your kid a new car.

https://intmassmedia.com/2017/01/09/sober-decisions-drunken-nikita-crimean-measurement/

Yup....he is a ex-KGB thug and strongman with all that implies but he survived in that world and rose to the top of the henhouse which was no accident.

He's pragmatic and strategic and understands geo-politics better than any leader on the stage right now. He'd eat Trump up like the Cheeto he is.[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

I'm not trying to glorify or villify Putin. All I'm saying is that he takes a rock-solid, non-negotiable, hard-core position about what's good for Mother Russia. Anybody who wants to dispute that with him to the point of sailing military vessals into what he claims are Russian territorial waters is probably going to have a VERY bad day....

 

So Funny -
Ukraine afraid of Russia - declares Martial Law - Invades POLAND
http://12160.info/video/wtf-moment-of-the-first-day-of-martial-law-in-ukraine-or-going

- -

WTF Moment Of The First Day Of Martial Law In Ukraine

 

Oh, but I think you do need to tell us. I can't wait. This should be good ...

 

Putin:

I believe that to be true.

Agreed.

 

No, it means there was already violence and our forces went in later.

 

Seems to me that one of the most glaring differences between any American president and Putin is in the understanding of a situation, taking stock of the options, choosing the best one with a solid plan, and following through. American presidents usually choose a bad plan and either follow through and suffer the consequences or end up back-pedaling. In both cases, they then lie through the teeth and rewrite their own history as it unfolds which only succeeds in dumbing-down their own population while making fools of themselves in the eyes of the outside world.

 

You don't follow world events very closely, do you.

 

I think the question is not what are they taking out...it's what are they bringing back

Europe needs to deal with this asap... if America starts another peace in Ukraine they'll have refugees from the north and the south

 

I'm no historian either, I form my opinions upon current events. 'history' was then, this is now, and many things will have changed in the meanwhile.

 

Really?
And why did I say from the beginning and endless times alone in this forum that I have no problem with the annexation of the Crimea?
Does that also say the Western media you accuse? No!
So your charge that I repeat what the media say and I'm blinded by them, is just simple plain nonsense, my dear Mr. Eleuthera!

As I said, I have nothing against the occupation of the Crimea, even if the rest of the world sees it differently, but this is the only access to the Sea of Azov - the "Street of Kerch" under exclusive Russian control. Does this leave Russia with the right to prevent Ukrainian ships, whether civilian, military or whatever else, from passing through, or controlling or even boarding a ship? The answer is definitely no!

I understand very well, that here again a bad western conspiracy of Ukraine, USA, NATO & Co. against the poor Russia is build up, whose goal is supposed to be the destruction of the bridge over the passage etc. ... but where is the evidence for this?
Until now is nothing delivered ... only bullcrap and bull**** claims and allegations!

 

Funny ain't it. America seems to bring chaos whether they themselves call it "war" or "peace."

 

Ok....sure, make fools outta ourselves....and no credibility.

LOL, but the bigger fools are the former soviets/Russians.....where their so called "empire" came crashing down with a handshake and a smile)), priceless, all those nukes and still couldnt keep it together,)), going from medieval cave man, to a monarchy, to a backward police state, to a criminal kleptocracy....next stop, who knows, further breakup.....??

"Bad plans"....the russkis wrote the book on that one.....5 yr plans?? To bring you into the 20th century....in the end the illiterate soviet conscripts still plugged toilets in konigsberg , and stole light bulbs from berlin lots in 45 to send back to their villages in siberia.....where they plug them in.....to a tree,lol.

 

In trying to understand what this discord is all about, I turned to the Wiki for "Sea of Azov", and found this:

"In December 2003, Ukraine and the Russian Federation agreed to treat the sea and the Straight (sic) of Kerch as shared internal waters.

In September 2018, Ukraine announced the intention to add navy ships and further ground forces along the coast of the Sea of Azov, with the ships based at Berdyansk. The military posturing has been exacerbated since the construction of the Crimean Bridge, which is too low to allow passage of Panamax ships into Ukraine’s ports."

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_of_Azov

Without trying to sound like I am "pro"-anybody, is this tense situation caused by Ukraine deciding to add military components to the issue of free-passage? Are such military components part of what was agreed to in 2003? Did any of those agreements change when the Kiev coup overthrew the Ukraine's Yanukovych administration in 2014?

While I doubt that this issue will really be settled by anyone's 'finessing' the fine print of a pre-coup, 2003 agreement (from before 2014), it would be helpful in understanding who has what position....

 

I may be wrong on this but I've been told the majority of the common people on BOTH sides don't really give a Flying Fandango as to whether they are Russian or Ukrainian.

The two governments involved care, that's true, but the poor people who are actually being killed over it couldn't care less.

The largest contingent of Ukrainians who are crying over the plight of a Free Ukraine are in, you guessed it, AMERICA, where there has been a large and rather rich expatriate Ukrainian community since the 19th century.

Again, I could be wrong, but the one who told me this claims to be FROM that Ukrainian community. He's also, however, just about the very definition of a crazy Russian, or really, he's just batshit crazy. He makes Trump look like George Washington, but it's not because he's dishonest, just terribly misinformed.

In any case this seems a damned shame. The Ukrainians are generally nice people to my experience and deserve better than this type of ongoing war, as painful as an infected wound and more deadly to the innocent people there who just want to live in peace.

 

No dreamin' about it...



Then there was all the whining about how the U.S. might have been smuggling arms to the Georgians in those aid shipments. I certainly hope that we did...

 

You are surely right in saying that most Ukrainians are "generally nice people", and yet we've seen horrible atrocities occur in this more recent, post-coup period. The ungodly spectacle of people being burned alive by the dozens in Odessa in 2014 comes immediately to mind.

People in all countries will probably care more about their own individual lives and communities than that of some great big 'nation-state' that envelops them, but these same people can get very animated and violent when destruction and death are rained down on them by any faction of anybody's government.

 

I guess you're right, People everywhere generally don't choose to fight until one or another side makes them.

Damned shame some people do that.

 

You can do a web search under Russia Wagner Group Deir al-Zour and find out for yourself, but it appears I'm not the one who has some explaining to do...

 

Another thing I've noticed through the years is that people who have long histories tend to develop parochial attitudes (both 'good' and 'bad'). We Americans haven't been around long enough as a country to have developed many of these beyond the old Civil War animosities, and the more recent ones of 'coastal liberal' populations disliking everyone in "flyover" country, etc.

More to the point -- World War II is still very much alive in the consciousness of many Europeans -- especially in Eastern Europe, and in Russia. The Soviet Union lost far more people in WWII than any other country, and although Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, the majority of those killed were in Russia itself.

Russians, and that most particularly includes Russians like Vladimir Putin, still feel very passionately about "The Great Patriotic War", and the most decisive battle of the entire war -- STALINGRAD. Russians are strange people, really. They bitch and snipe at each other, and grumble a lot about one part of the country versus another part. BUT, when they are confronted with anything that poses a threat or even an insult to Russia AS A COUNTRY, they bristle with anger and become very dangerous -- as even the formidable ranks of the Wehrmacht found out when they fought Russians who often had little to fight with but crappy old surplus WWI equipment -- and not much of that.

Plus, Russians remember that there really was a fairly large contingent of pro-Nazi sentiment and even SS-participation in Ukraine by Ukrainians (who justifiably hated Stalin).

You may remember this Galician (Ukranian) Nazi flag:

 

Never forget the Soviet-Nazi cooperation agreement.

the Russians were also in talks with the Nazis to join the Axis Powers.

Russia also followed up the Molotov-Ribbentrop agreement with an ecomomic agreement that gave the Nazis enough raw materials to continue the war and and invade the USSR. Plus Stalin turned over hundreds of German Communists to the Nazis.