US Army Makes Playing Cards with Iran's weapons on them

I posted this elsewhere, but it deserves its own thread. As Trump's favorable ratings tumble, I am sure his instincts will look at finding way to throw a hail merry to save him politically. For him, that hail merry would be his version of an "October surprise" - a war with Iran, which many around him (not counting those who have to do the actual fighting and dying) have been salivating and promoting.

In any case, the US army seems to be better preparing itself for a war with Iran, coming up with a deck of cards for its soldiers showing various Iranian weapons systems. The fact that it is the US army (as opposed to say the air force or navy) was interesting to me, although the same kind of deck of cards have been issued previously for Russia and China -- and no one quite expects either to be invaded by the US anytime soon!

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your...f-playing-cards-with-iranian-weapons-systems/
Report: Army introduces new deck of playing cards with Iranian weapons systems

The report from the Federation of American Scientists has the entire deck of cards, 54 (52 plus 2 jokers) depicting 54 weapons. You can look at the deck of cards in the site below, although my look showed that in some cases they have made some rather obvious mistakes.
https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/id-iran.pdf

p.s.
As I mentioned, the cards above are for the weapons that the Army expects to encounter in any combat with Iran. Its main focus in on MBTs, APCs, artillery and shorter range missiles. Leaving aside some errors in their deck of cards, I wonder if the US navy and the US air force will need a deck too. After all, aerial vandalism we are told, would be the tactic of choice against Iran, while the one area that two sides are closest to one another for any combat to arise is on the high seas which suggest a naval deck of cards would be in order as well. While I do this latter task myself, and with fewer errors than in the US military deck, I do it because I don't believe any such decks would change the ultimate dynamics in a war. A war against Iran is ultimately a war against a nation of 80 million people with several thousand years of consciousness of its identity -- and a fierce desire to keep that identity and not be subdued. And that is not something you can fit into any deck of cards!

 

I think Iraq beat you to it.

 

Yet, Iraq was a colonial construct, not a real nation like Iran. For me to explain that difference to you would require that I educate you in history, which I will do some other time. But to the extent the Iraq war taught it takes more than weapons to win a war, despite all the differences between the two cases, that is still a valuable lesson for you nonetheless.

 

His ratings 'tumble'...must be why his rallies draw 10K + overflow crowds. Turn off CNN.

 

You switch between fear mongering and saber rattling, sounds like you want a war.

 

So what would a deck of Iran's naval weapons look like if you had to put them in a playing card deck for the US? You can use the report by the report by the US Navy's Office of Naval Intelligence - Iranian Naval Forces: Tale of Two Navies. Page 34 of that reports lists all the vessels they believe Iran has. While in most cases, substantively, there isn't much difference between the facts and what they say, the US navy likes to link almost every Iranian built ship (which they admit is built in Iran) ultimately to some foreign design. While in some cases, that might be legitimate, in many cases its like calling the USS Lincoln aircraft carrier: "USS Lincoln/Modified HMS HMS Argus! This then leads to some confused terminology as well!

Anyway, Iran's navy has several hundred surface and subsurface platforms, including one of the largest submarine forces in the world, so it would be impossible to fit all of them in a single deck of cards. Picking and choosing among them for this, more limited, deck therefore wasn't an easy task. I have tried to give more attention to the platforms and systems built in Iran itself, although even Iran's foreign built platforms have almost all been rebuilt and gone through major overhauls in Iran.

Diamonds:
Ace: Fateh-class Submarine (Made in Iran) (entered service in 2018, after first being launched in 2012)

King: Sahand Stealth Frigate (Made in Iran) (entered service in 2018 )


Queen: Iran's Tareq Fast Attack Submarine (Russian-made, Iranian overhauled, part of Iran's fleet of 3 Russian Kilo class submarines) (entered service in 1992, rebuilt and overhauled in Iran in 2014)


Jack: Jamaran Frigate (Part of Iran's "Mowj-class" Frigates) (Made in Iran) (entered service in 2010)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10: Nahang Submarine (Made in Iran) (entered service in 2006)


9 - Ghadir Mini-Submarine (Made in Iran) (a couple of dozen in Iran's fleet, the first one entering service in 2007 and the last 2 just recently in 2018 )


8- Bayandor Class Corvettes (originally US built PT-103, Iranian rebuilt and Overhauled)


7- Kaman (Sina Class) Fast Attack Boat (Made in France) (entered service in the late 1970s) (Iran has 13 of these vessels, now equipped with new missile systems)


to be continued....

 

I have already told you:
1- I don't want war, if there is a chance to avoid one (without turning Iran into a vassal state). Incidentally, war includes, to me, attempts to impose a worldwide blockade on Iran which, coupled with many other acts, are meant to throw Iran into civil war and cause what those behind the idea have called an "implosion". The US has already started this war.
2- Between the option of letting the US weaken Iran enough so any war in the future will be on the "cheap" for the US and its allies, I prefer a war now than later.
3- What I prefer right now is for Iran to give the US reciprocity in its actions! In the process, push the US to make its choice: give up on these unnecessary, self-defeating, and treacherous plans devised and pushed ultimately by those with foreign agendas, and try to get along with Iran on the basis of mutual respect and on fair terms. Or if that is just impossible and not in your DNA, fight your war now and not later.

 

All nice looking targets.

 

Some yes, but the US won't be able to find Iran's smaller submarines hiding in the shallow waters of the Persian Gulf. And firing their missiles using a very unique system which makes the origin of the launch hard to detect. (The missile is launched from a capsule that itself travels away from the submarine before the missile is then launched over the water). You can see the Ghadir mini-sub launch its missile in that manner here if you haven't already.


Nor can the US easily take the multitude (up to 3,000) Iranian speedboats and while it can try to take out their bases, there are too numerous and each such mission has to do a lot better than previous US or Israeli air missions. (The supposed efficiency of air power is truly mostly a myth and I can expand on it with you, given you said you were in the air force, if you wish).

Incidentally, talking about Iran's speedboats, did you know that Iran was able to go through a lot of trouble to purchase the world's fastest speedboat, the British Bradstone Challenger, and then make dozens of it, modified to carry missiles? The speedboat is called the Seraj 1.

 

What has that "identity" got to do with dominating Iraq?
What has that "identity" got to do with seeking to wreck the nuclear non-proliferation treaty?
What has that "identity" got to do with violating UN arms embargoes with Lebanon?
What has that "identity" got to do with using proxies to attack/sink oil tankers?
What has that "identity" got to do with supporting global terrorism?
What has that "identity" got to do with calling Israel a "one bomb country" and seeking that bomb?
What has that "identity" got to do with crushing the opposition and controlling elections?
... you get the idea.
forget this "several thousand years of consciousness" crap. It's got nothing to do with the issues.
You wouldn't use it to describe Israel, would you?

Oh yeah, and this "
Ali Khamenei's
Islamic Republic of Iran has never sought nuclear weapons"
he even made a fatwa on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Views_on_the_nuclear_program_of_Iran

 

Iran is seeking to prevent the US (an enemy power) from dominating Iraq. Iraq is a neighbor of Iran and has been used as a surrogate for attacks against Iran, most notably the Iran-Iraq war were both NATO and Warsaw Pact countries (while maintaining an embargo on sale of weapons to Iran) filled Saddam's war machine to the hilt. Besides being Iran's neighbor, Iraq (like Iran) is a majority Shia country, which adds to our responsibility to prevent it from being dominated by an enemy force. On top of that, if you must know, Iraq was actually part of Iran and its history for most of its history. It certainly part of Iran's ancient empires, for several hundred years under the Achaemenids, then under the Parthians, then the Sassanids. And it was a country over which Iran and the Ottoman empire fought numerous wars, even if the Treaty of Zahab ceded Iraq to the Ottomans.
To be sure, no one in Iran wants to rule Iraq. That is not our game.

Iran is actually the side in compliance with the NPT - albeit foolishly. It is the US that is non-complaint in many ways, which I can list for you if you wish.

Iran is supporting the largest group in Lebanon, disenfranchised from their proper share of power in Lebanon's system of government, from having their proportionate say, while having helped Hezbollah kick out the Israelis after they had invaded Lebanon and then occupied its south, and having helped Hezbollah defeat Israel in the 2006 war militarily, to be strong enough not for Israel to do against Lebanon and others as it pleases and does elsewhere. No UN Security resolution will change that.

All the proxy forces Iran supports are the most popular groups in their communities resisting or fighting the most heinous crimes and the most despicable groups known in history. Whether they be the monsters called ISIS, the Zionist forces you support with their twisted ideology in Israel, the agents of genocide and body snatchers in Wahhabi Arabia, or where ever in our region.

Nothing, which is why the accusation is so rich coming from people like you! The ones who have been terrorizing all sorts of places for as long as you have.

Wish Iran had sought the bomb. We would have had a greater arsenal than Israel has if we had wanted to. We were fooled and thought appeasement works. It doesn't.

Don't know but the last person that needs to worry about the welfare of Iranians and their rights and liberties is people like you.

The only thing I got was that you want to repeat the same crap. And partly because I am tired of hearing it, I truly wish you guys would step it up and do whatever is you intend to do. Or just stop the nonsense and start being truthful, honest and deal with the issues differently.

 

......................You can lead a Horse to Water
.....................But you can't make him drink &
........................
............
The donkeys you are dealing with here IRM - actually PREFER their Ignorance & Hubris
....And their Bloated sense of their Exceptional - arrogant superiority. History, Reason
................................................................. & Facts mean absolutely nothing to them

 

Iraq, Mesopotamia, appeared before Persia.
And Iraq nearly handed your arses to you, so your ancient identities didn’t seem to help.
Whatever you are banking on, you are doing it wrong.

 

When I was in the army we used to use Soviet war machines and weapons on cards to study for that big war Reagan was gonna start with the USSR...

 

Large ships will be gone within minutes.
You don’t have nuclear subs, so everything you have is noisy, makes for easy targets. Smaller subs that hide in shallow waters could be easily spotted by choppers and drones on a sunny day.

This propaganda seem to be more working on you than on anyone else.

 

You always manage to wrap a dozen falsehoods in a few short sentences and I applaud you for this ability. I admit: I am not good at writing things without substantiation and pretending that I have proven anything on that basis! Instead, in the past, dealing with the same or similar comments, I have cited American admirals, generals, military analysts, America's own military magazines, America's own war games, to address the issues involved. You have shared nothing in response, except your unsubstantiated drivel. If there is anything that I need to respond to, please refer me to a semi-credible source and then we can take it from there.

Otherwise, if you have any questions, you can also share them and I will see if I can help you with the answers.

 

Exactly the opposite is the case. The first thing that happens after a breakout of war between Iran and the U.S. is the defection of large parts of the Iranian military - and probably even parts of their leadership.

Even your own intelligence agency is full of atheists who are sick of this regime and you know it. Identification of the Iranians with this regime is a lot lower than it was even in Iraq.

 

If I felt it made any difference, I would take the time to give you a proper history lesson so you would understand the differences well. But as for Iraq "nearly" handing our "arses" to us, they were actually expected to run over Iran (which is in the midst of revolutionary turmoil, with its military purged and in disarray due to the revolution, cut from its western suppliers to boot, and in the middle of the so-called "hostage crisis" with the US). It just didn't work out for them the way they imagined -- and it wasn't because of weapons either. It had more to do with what I referred to. Otherwise, the Iraqis lost more aircraft and tanks against Iran than they had in their arsenal when the war started but, when the war ended, they had one the largest inventories of tanks and aircraft in the world! All that aside, what allowed Saddam to escape defeat at the hands of Iran was ultimately the repeated and indiscriminate use of chemical weapons, which left thousands of Iranians killed and maimed for life. The estimate of number of Iranians who died as direct result of chemical weapons is around 107,000! And America tried its best to cover all of that up.

 

I have a lot more faith in our people than particular individuals in our "leadership" or "intelligence agencies". Indeed, what does worry me about a war scenario is that I wouldn't be surprised some of the corrupt scum (and they can belong to either faction in Iranian politics) doing what you suggest. But the Iranian people, save a small minority, will rally behind the flag. Even neocons who have been plotting the overthrow of Iran's regime for years realize that. For instance, Michael Rubin or even the guru of the neocons, Bernard Lewis. You need me to quote them on this issue, I will dig up their comments and do so.

But, ultimately, until war breaks out, nothing is for sure. Maybe you are right. In which case, more reason for the US to go down this route than trying to strangulate Iran into a slow death.

 

Chemical WMD and a plethora of other weapons provided by the American Tax-Payer

AGAIN ! - The Bloody & arrogant hands of an Psychopathic, elitist, clique, spreading
their murderous Basilus & Malignancy at the behest of their GREED driven Corporations.

Enabled by a Compliant, Complicite and Ignorant people who's Brains have been Washed
in the poisonous Lie that THEY are somehow Exceptional - Who in their Willful Ignorance
........................quickly believe the further Lie that they are Hated because of their Freedoms

It is regretable that in all the washing of their brains, the Stains & Smears of innocent Blood
...................................................................................................... remains upon their Hands & Faces

.

 

Before I proceed to complete the Diamond set in my deck of cards for the Iranian navy vessels, let me mention that the (unclassified) poster by the office of US Naval Intelligence which serves as the identification guide for Iranian naval assets is as follows:


To continue with my diamond deck of cards for the Iranian navy, I am left with a few cards for the platforms to show. Although I don't think I am going to be up for the task for now, my initial intention was to complete the other cards as follows: Spades (showing Iran's naval missiles, torpedoes, mines), Hearts (to show the air wing of the Iranian navy), and Clubs (Special Navy Forces).

Diamonds continued:

6- Shahid Nazeri, IRGC's high speed catamaran troop carrier, (Made in Iran) (entered service in 2006)


5- Tondar, UAV carrying, Missile Firing, Hovercraft (Made in Iran) (entered service 2012)


4- Bavar 2, Flying Boats (Made in Iran) (entered service 2010)

3- Lavan LST, tank landing ship/helicopter carrier (Made in UK, Overhauled in Iran)


2- IPS-16 Peykaap-Class Patrol Ship (Made in Iran)


p.s.
For the two 'jokers' in the deck, I would show the following:
Kharg-431 Helicopter Carrier and Replenishment Ship (by tonnage, the largest ship in Iran's navy)


Iran's Ya Mahdi Naval Drone (unmanned missile firing boat)

 

I had a deck for the Soviet weapons systems and vehicles when I was stationed in Germany back in the mid 80's. Is a great training tool.

 

The author of this article is James Holmes is J. C. Wylie Chair of Maritime Strategy at the Naval War College. He is definitely knowledgeable when it comes to the things he is most experienced with: US naval assets and capabilities, the Persian Gulf geography and terrain, and naval strategy and tactics. What he is not going to be all that knowledgeable about (beyond some of Iran's capabilities and assets) is the actual weapons and systems Iran has. This is not something that the American military has been trained to learn about, which is actually what the US Army's playing card deck is an effort to begin redressing.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/us-iran-naval-war-2019-what-it-could-look-57012
The U.S.-Iran Naval War of 2019: What It Could Look Like

-------------
*Actually, what Paul Van Riper had at his disposal in 2002 wasn't even a fraction of what Iran has now. What's more, what Iran has now is specifically tailor made for its tactics.

 

I agree that it can be a good tool. It certainly doesn't hurt the training of these forces. Still, the US military is like an infant when it comes to its knowledge of the military forces of a country like Iran. For decades, it has been used to assuming that all major weapons systems are either American or Russian (and, more recently, possibly Chinese). And for a lot of them, it is really a case of not being able to teach an old dog new tricks!

 

Y

Yeah ok.