US Spy Plane Intercepted by Russian Jet over Black Sea

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Jazz, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,145
    Likes Received:
    729
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Thanks so much for your detailed listing of the various
    groups. I should write it down somewhere... it's too much to keep in my head.
    I do remember that back in Germany Hermann Goering was the flying ace of WWI and became Minister for Aviation ( Reichsluftfahrtminister) during WWII.
    It is too sad Germany lost the war.
     
  2. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,145
    Likes Received:
    729
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Where do you get your facts from? The lying MS media?
     
    ArchStanton and Jeannette like this.
  3. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    29,832
    Likes Received:
    3,932
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    And what alternative does Israel have? The Palestinians and the Muslims in general will never agree to anything less than complete control of Israel. The problem here is not Israel, but Islam, since it considers political control as part of their faith. If it wasn't so, Israel would have no reason to act the way it does and would have to stop.

    Now let me ask you a question, if the Palestinians were given a right to return, then shouldn't everyone else in the world have the same right of return?
     
  4. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    29,832
    Likes Received:
    3,932
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I don't think Nato went against the Montreax Treaty, but somehow circumvented it. According to this paragraph, there are limits to the amount of warships allowed to enter at one time during peacetime. The ships could have entered on different days, since they are allowed to stay for 21 days. More than likely they were guests of Romania:

    A number of highly-specific restrictions were imposed on what type of warships are allowed passage. No more than nine foreign warships, with a total aggregate tonnage of 15,000 tons, may pass at any one time, therefore a single non-Black Sea state warship passing the straits might not exceed 15,000 tons. An aggregate tonnage of all non-Black Sea warships in the Black Sea must be no more than 30,000 tons (or 45,000 tons under special conditions), and they are permitted to stay in the Black Sea for no longer than twenty-one days. Only Black Sea states may transit capital ships of any tonnage, escorted by no more than two destroyers.
    What is interesting is that the Treaty restricted the Soviet Union from sending warships to the Mediterranean in order to please Britain, which explains why large Russian warships have to come from the north and pass through Gibraltar.

    Turkey in the meantime is building a canal to bypass the Bosporus and should some excuse arise to close off the straits, they will have complete control of the Black Sea. This of course must be freaking out Washington and Nato considering Erdogan's friendship with Russia. Should something happen though to Erdogan and Turkey shifts away from Russia, I fear for the world unless a new Treaty is written up.
     
  5. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    23,617
    Likes Received:
    2,221
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Trump didn't give anything. It wasn't his to give. The Jews took it in 67. And as good as no country recognizes it as part of Israel. The end.
     
    Eleuthera likes this.
  6. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    23,617
    Likes Received:
    2,221
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Trump can't give it. It's not his to give. The already Jews took it decades ago.
    Besides that as good as no country recognizes this.
     
  7. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    29,832
    Likes Received:
    3,932
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    World War I should never have been. Yesterday I read that Tsar Nicholas II warned Archduke Franz Ferdinand not to go to Sarajevo. I know the last thing Nicky wanted was a war with his cousin Wilhelm. Both knew how disastrous it would be and Russia and Prussia always avoided war, but when Germany tried to bluff him and said they would support Austria, it was too late for the Tsar to pull back his troops. They were already at the front. I read that when the German ambassador realized it he began crying over the lives that would be lost.

    The US would never have entered that war if it hadn't been for 'sneaky' Britain and the Lusitania. The German population here was enormous, not to mention the Irish that hated the British, so the sympathy was on their side. But propaganda and the Lusitania changed that.

    I don't doubt that Churchill who was head of the navy tipped off the Germans that the Lusitania was packed with explosives so they could torpedo it. The German embassy kept warning the passengers not to go on the ship, and that they were endangering their lives, but to no avail.
     
  8. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    23,617
    Likes Received:
    2,221
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Act normal within what the UN requires.
    And FYI,.. the UN is not some Muslim dominated institute. All the governments of the world are in it, and they are predominantly as good as all saying the same thing about Israel. And them Jews do the opposite... by thieving more and more land across their own border. If Mexico would do that to the US....

    Israel made this mess, because they ethnically cleansed something like 90% of the Arabs to thieve their real estate. And than went on to thieve some more. We got rules and norms about what to think about ethnic cleansing,... and them Jews think it's alright. Heck,.. half the Jews in Israel think they need to ethnically cleanse it all. And their Torah supports even genocide if that is what it takes to thieve the land of Israel.
     
  9. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    6,503
    Likes Received:
    1,794
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Well...yeah, he didn't give, but recognizes it as part of Israel.

    Syria should raise the issue with the Russkis....they're the ones who lost it for Syria.
     
  10. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    23,617
    Likes Received:
    2,221
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And before this you said he did.
    /facepalm
     
  11. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    6,503
    Likes Received:
    1,794
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Lol....did/didn't.....face it, it's Israeli territory....no different than the vatniks claiming Crimea. If your butthurt about it....sucks to be you...l
    LOL.

    Syria can blame their Russki friends for that clusterf***.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  12. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    23,617
    Likes Received:
    2,221
    Trophy Points:
    113
    it's still remains a joke that you claimed Trump gave it.

    It still remains nobody recognized the Israeli claim. They can't even sell products made there in the EU if they label it as made in Israel. And they have to label where it came from.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  13. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    6,503
    Likes Received:
    1,794
    Trophy Points:
    113


    No it doesn't remain a joke.....it's only a joke since you're thinking it is.

    Whether Trump "gave" or recognizes it....it's a part of Israel.

    Nobody recognizes Israeli claim??? What's someone going to do about it? Nothing....in 50 yrs has been done.
     
  14. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    29,832
    Likes Received:
    3,932
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Look, I'm not denying what the Jews did, nor what they are doing, but do you have any idea how many people have been ethnically cleansed from their lands - mostly by Muslims. All of Anatolia for one, not to mention Syria and Palestine. They were all part of the Byzantine Empire.

    Even now there was a genocide of Christians in Syria, why do you think they left. I know Washington and Israel supported Al Nusra, and so they are partially to blame, but they weren't the ones chopping the heads off.
     
  15. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    1,546
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Dulce bellum, inexpertis.
     
  16. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,145
    Likes Received:
    729
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Question is, what did Czar Nicholas know that he felt he needed to warn Franz Ferdinand about?

    WWI didn't just happen out of the blue because of Ferdinand's assassination. The war was planned already long before. For instance, on Dec. 27th, 1893 Russia and France formed an alliance. What for?

    In June of 1903 during a coup the king and queen of Serbia were killed and a Russian took the throne.

    April 1904: In the initially secret Anglo-French treaty, the English were awarded Egypt, and the French got Morocco without regards to Germany's interests.

    The German Kaiser Wilhelm objected to the take-over of Morocco by France and declared Morocco should remain open to all nations for peaceful competitions.

    In June of 1908 England joined the Russian/French alliance. Again, what for?

    Germany didn't see nor realize they were encircled by war-planning nations.

    German source:
    http://www.globalecho.org/augenoffn...re-luege-wie-es-wirklich-zum-1-weltkrieg-kam/
    ----
    From what I have heard and read, the war was planned to put mighty Germany down. And when it recovered under Hitler it had to be destroyed again, but this time forever.

    I'll finish responding to the rest of your post tomorrow, Jeannette.
     
  17. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    1,546
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You can make a case that Germany was as guilty as her opponents. Ferdinand Mount makes it here, although he puts the guilt on the German side.
    Although Mount is a conservative, his case is essentially the Marxist one, which in fact has a lot going for it.
    Probably the dominant view among historians is that, while there was rivalry among the Great Powers, they stumbled into WWI.

    And the scary thing is .... the years before WWI look a lot like today. A rising power, Big Powers (Germany and Russia) run by men of very modest intellectual endowment and, in the case of the Kaiser, prone to emotional gestures... rapid advances in technology, lots of social change and upheaval ...

    Hopefully the Chinese will live up to their stereotype for cool, long-term calculation of self-interest. Apparently, the Chinese will not have the capability to defeat the US for another 20 years, and by then, we may have got lucky in some way.
     
  18. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,145
    Likes Received:
    729
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I read the Ferdinand Mount article. Nowhere does he or you or anyone else mention the influence and instigation of the powerful Jews. Without going any further into this, I suggest you listen to Benjamin Freedman's 1961 speech. Here is the link:
    Oops.... This video has been removed for violating YouTube's policy on harassment and bullying.
    No surprise!
    O.k., try this one...

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...4DEA4CBA8EC29D3FD3E64DEA4CBA8EC29&FORM=VDMCNR
     
  19. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    1,546
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Do you have a link to something I can read? I prefer things I can read, when it's just a question of conveying information. If not, I'll watch the video. (I have to tell you that a previous wife's grandfather was Chief Rabbi for the Austro-Hungarian Army, but then I suppose you'll tell me he was secretly in touch with his English and Russian equivalents, plotting to ... ) Anyway, I'll read/listen to your material.
     
  20. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    8,600
    Likes Received:
    4,988
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Have NATO resolved their GPS issues... I'm surprised they found the entrance to the Black Sea
     
    Eleuthera and Jazz like this.
  21. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,145
    Likes Received:
    729
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Here is the link to the speech...

    http://thepoisonappleoftheworld.com/benjamin-freedmans-1961-speech-at-the-willard-hotel/
     
  22. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    15,074
    Likes Received:
    3,150
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Calling a P-8 a "spy plane" is inflammatory and fundamentally dishonest.
     
  23. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,145
    Likes Received:
    729
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Don't worry, I have already been enlightened.
     
    Dayton3 likes this.
  24. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,145
    Likes Received:
    729
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    It is true, the American people were friendly towards Germany and had no desire to fight them. But according to Benjamin Freedman the Americans were tricked into the war by a Jewish group to help Britain win, so the Jews could get their Palestine.
    Cont. reading here:
    https://gmmuk.com/benjamin-freedman-1961-the-most-important-speech-ever-made/

    Exactly true...

    Midday May 7th, off the coast of Ireland, the Lusitania was ordered to reduce speed, and “Juno,” its British military escort vessel, was ordered to withdraw. Committee of 300, 33rd degree Freemason, and Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill knew German U-Boats were in the vicinity and purposely called off Juno, leaving the Lusitania a sitting duck.
    “British commander Joseph Kenworthy, on duty when the ship was sunk, later revealed that her military escort was withdrawn at the last minute and her captain ordered to enter at reduced speed an area where a German U-boat was known to be operating. It is clear why Germany attacked this ship, and Britain would have done the same if U.S. munitions were being shipped to Germany. ‘The Germans, whose torpedo struck the liner, were the unwitting accomplices or victims of a plot probably concocted by Winston Churchill,’ concluded author Simpson.”

    http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2008/08/lusitania-world-war-i.html
     
  25. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    15,074
    Likes Received:
    3,150
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    IIRC, the fact that the Lusitania was carrying small arms munitions was no secret to anyone as it was an explicitly declared part of the cargo and that even then that type of cargo was allowed to be transported into war zones and not subjected to attack by the laws of neutrality observed at that time.

    I think Americans were more riled up by the Zimmerman Telegram and the idea of Germany offering to help Mexico retake territory lost to the U.S. some 70 years earlier. Americans are also hypersensitive about any possible threat coming out of Mexico.
     

Share This Page