We Don’t Need No Stinking Vaccine for Covid-19

I would guess not. Though IMO both the 'shutdown' and 'reopen' guidelines are just guidelines, not meant to be strictly adhered to. Its up to each jurisdiction to balance virus protection vs economy and civil rights protection on a case-by-case basis. Thats why I credit Trump with neither the aspects that are handled well nor the aspects that are handled poorly. To be frank, neither the shutdown nor the reopenning are FedGovs responsibility or jurisdiction. What is FedGovs responsibility and jurisdiction is to protect our civil rights if/when they are being violated by a state or local jurisdiction. The constitution doesn't address viral pandemics. It does however address tyrannical government.

 

the point is, Trump released the guidelines, thus he shares in any of the blame of those that followed them

 

Even when they only followed the parts they wanted to (eg '30 days')?

 

if they followed his shutdown guidelines, but opened early and ignored the Trump reopen guidlines it would be all on them, but as he also told people to open - he gets blame either way as he caused the confusion by telling people both things

Trump's indecisiveness in a crisis shows he is not fit to lead

 

Openning late would also be on them too, right?

 

has any State met the Trump re-open guidelines that has not opened, if that did happen, yep, that woudl be on them

 

Are you referring to the guidelines
"that put the onus on governors of making decisions about their states' economies"? Those guidelines?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...pening-u-s-amid-coronavirus-pandemic-n1185666

 

I am referring to these 3 phases of the Trump reopen guidelines

https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-conte...ening-Up-America-Again.pdf?mod=article_inline

 

The mutation rate is a good point - one I had not considered. One the author may not have considered either - so I would not be as prone to ridicule the author. The figure cited was 30-60%. Taking the high end some percentage changes the calculus -

I look at the numbers in Sweden so far and things look pretty good. Yes the numbers in Sweden are higher than other Nordic Nations - but not by that much - roughly double as per an article I read. This is an interesting experiment which has yet to play out.

While Sweden's numbers are somewhat higher in this phase - they will develop herd immunity at a much faster rate and so going forward the situation may well reverse. Time will tell.

In terms of focus on your immune system -and bacterial consortia - this is a worthy objective in terms of lifestyle and would likely save more lives than the covid lockdown - NOT including the initial lockdown phase where we did not know how fast this thing spread and there was a threat of overwhelming hospitals because we were not prepared - had no treatment and so on.

perhaps more so than "Lockdown" - never tried to do the math on that one - but there is an interesting point somewhere in there - so your "ridiculous" claim is half cocked.

Covid has two main ways of killing people - 1) Pneumonia - similar to how the flue kills 2) in roughly 40% of the deaths there was a different kind of attack on the respiratory system - there is an acronym for it. - this is different than the flue.

The suggested action will help with 1) - not sure of the effect on 2).

My take is that we needed to lock down initially because we were not prepared. Now that we are prepared - and know way more about Covid - I do not see the lockdown as being the best option.

 

Well my opinion of the article started on a low point with the terrible headline so I'm happy to admit that not giving much leeway. The fact remains that the effectiveness of flu vaccines is all but irrelevant to the effectiveness of any of the multiple potential SARS-CoV-2 vaccines. Either the author was aware of that and was being deliberately misleading to support their determination to discredit the idea of a vaccine or they were entirely ignorant of the basic facts and shouldn't have been writing such a technical article on the topic without any kind of expert input.

You're missing the key point. Getting people to change their behaviour with healthier eating and lifestyles takes time and the positive benefits of any changes people make, including for the immune system, will take time to be established. Even if that could have been effectively promoted as a policy from the outbreak of COVID-19, it couldn't have any significant impact for weeks at the very best.

Healthy lifestyles are promoted all over the place, though it could indeed do with even more promotion and support. It remains a long-term policy though, not a practical reaction to an immediate public health crisis.

 

I don't think the effectiveness of other vaccines is irrelevant - it is just not a 1 to 1 comparison - unless you figure the Covid Vaccine will be 100% effective - which I doubt is the case.

Agree that "healthy lifestyle" takes time - in general but, you can to things to boost your immune system in the short term. What is also true is that the medical community in general is clueless with respect to environmental bacterial. Only in the last decade has the medical community started to consider this aspect of human health.

At the end of the day I agree that the article is somewhat misleading - but it is not as far off the mark as what you are suggesting.

 

America shut down four days after Australia. You saying four days made such a huge difference?

 

The spread is largely among the young who ignore social distancing . This is actually a good thing long term to build herd immunity.

 

Except we have reports of antibodies not lasting very long, and we have reports of people being re-infected. Plus we have no vaccine. Meaning herd immunity isn't a real strategy at this point.

 

Source?

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-antibodies-fade-months-study/story?id=71406787
https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/27/1000569/how-long-are-people-immune-to-covid-19/
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/studies-report-rapid-loss-of-covid-19-antibodies-67650

In general, medical experts abandoned the idea of herd immunity or this disease (at least until we get a vaccine) quite some time ago. We'd need massive infection counts, and even then it isn't a sure thing.

In general, depending on "herd immunity" for a deadly disease before we have a vaccine is a very bad idea.

 

First study comes from China so it’s null and void. Second study is on an entirely different virus so it to is worthless.
Even if there were some element of truth to the two studies we have to open the economy or face economic collapse. We have accepted millions of car deaths and countless horrific disabling injuries as necessary to keep our economy going and we have to approach Covid the same way.

 

You guaranteeing a vaccine that provides better immunity than natural infection? Such vaccines are the exception, not the rule.

 

When you got no vaccine you have to have hope in medieval things like masks and social distancing. That's all you got and it ain't worth much, but something is better than nothing.

 

When it is done effectively yes

It was only PART of a package of initiatives which included early aggressive testing (and that is still going on in Melbourne now) contact tracing quarantine for ALL returning travellers and determination to actually carry through on all of this

 

Japan seems to have managed

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/28/national/science-health/masks-helped-fight-coronavirus/

but then the Japanese mask up at the drop of a virus

 

But not unknown

Tetanus is a classic example you cannot become immune through natural infection only the vaccine confers immunity

 

No you don’t

social distancing and mask wearing will help slow the spread

 

Well, kind of. Tetanus vaccination does not make one immune to infection either. It makes you “immune” to the toxin produced by the bacteria Clostridium tetani. That’s why it’s called a toxoid vaccine and really has no relevance to a discussion on coronavirus vaccines or immunity.

 

Picky picky