What Trump supporters would like the rest of us to believe.

I think what Republicans want is Hillary Clinton, Comey, Clapper, Brennan and a few others doing jail time for lying to Congress and attempring to rig and sabotage investigations and elections.

They are/were a criminal enterprise.

I think they also want ANTIFA labelled as a terrorist organization and all of those people thrown in prison. Especially the ones who assaulted a disabled veteran.

 

Well since this went on and others testified they were surprised the Burisma investigation was closed and Biden bragged about interfering in Ukrainian politics the question is not unfounded.

 

The president is over a lot of things as we covered. He doesn't need to be personally injecting himself into every individual investigation - if that were true nothing would get done. And in this case he shouldn't be.

As for "running the investigation", please re-read my words: "...or will not abuse their office in the pursuit of such an investigation." Not necessarily talking about running the investigation. Advocating would be sufficient to introduce questions of bias, whether or not it exists.

Excuse me, counter intelligence investigation.

As you no doubt can see, its origins have brought questions and mistrust about the evidence and conclusions of the investigation. However, it is not clear to me if the investigators were simply misled by the dossier, or if Obama was involved. Again, if you can provide hard evidence that he was directly involved (call transcript, video, recording, etc), I will excoriate it with the same venom.

But frankly, I don't see the relevance. It is an exercise in whataboutism. I have made it clear that I do not agree with this sort of behavior from anyone. Convincing me that this particular case is another example will not change that position.

The evidence is immaterial as it pertains to Trump's need to be directly involved. In fact, it is all the more reason for him not to be involved and potentially taint what would otherwise be a solid case due to the perception of bias.

I think it's pretty likely that Trump was misled by others concerning Yovanovich. I think his reasoning for losing confidence in her and recalling her was a mistake, but you can't impeach presidents for making a bad decision. So in that I am in agreement.

As for deserving to be impeached for "properly executing their Constitution authority," I don't know the answer there. I think whether or not it was "properly executing Constitutional authority" is more debatable than the Obama investigation into candidate Trump you are so fond of citing (at least until such time you provide hard evidence he was involved). I think Trump at the minimum deserves to be criticized across the aisle for doing so. But instead, we get Republicans in Congress proclaiming "nothingburgers" and whataboutism.

The sad reality is the hyperpartisanship going on in our congress has so paralyzed their ability to serve as an effective check on the president, that they can't even so much as properly vocalize a concern when there is clearly something to be concerned about. It is why @robini123's comments about tribalism is such a disheartening reality.

 

Probably not unfounded, but also irrelevant to the question as to whether or not the incumbent should be involved in such an investigation. If your litmus is credible evidence, then you will be blinded by your own personal confirmation bias as to that evidence's credibility. It is best not to invite further perception of bias into the process by people with a clear vested interest in the investigation's outcome be involved.

 

Actually the treaty with Ukraine spells out the DOJ must make the request and it should be in writing.
https://www.congress.gov/treaty-document/106th-congress/16/document-text

 

so tell me, do you think this impeachment is just or is it mere tribalism

 

Is it perfectly fine for Democrats to investigate Trump? They're political rivals. Why aren't you clamoring for a special investigation by an independent agency? Or is this only applied to Presidents?

 

Actually my preference would be to prosecute Trump for the felony campaign violation and throw him in jail. But, alas impeachment is the only way to punish a sitting president.

 

Those with a vested interest interest in the outcome of an investigation should have no part in said investigation as to do otherwise is to openly invite bias into the investigation. Republicans are giving Trump a pass for something that if a Democrat did would get them kicked out of office. That is political corruption as it is a step towards becoming a banana republic.

It is not just liberals that take issue with Trump’s corruption, independents like me do as do some of the more moderate Republicans.

 

Partisans only care when the side they oppose do it, while the objective take issue with it no matter who doesn’t it. I am the latter.

Republicans also use the “ya, but look at the other side” argument too and no matter who uses the argument I say that justifying our bad behavior by pointing out the bad behavior of others is to be unprincipled.

Getting dirt on a political opponent is not what Trump claims to be doing. He claims to be investigated corruption and as Trump has a vested interest in the outcome of the investigation he should have recused himself. Getting dirt should be done by Trump’s re-election campaign as opposed to using the Office of the President to do so.

 

Similar is not the same. Please at least attempt to stay in topic.

 

trumpeters want the democrats to believe there has been a HUGE conspiracy against trump

they also want the democrats to believe trump is an upstanding guy

and that he has the countries best interest in mind

sadly trumps actions cannot be excused

his actions are the opposite of the above

he is doing the best he can trying to implode the entire system

and he is willing to be impeached to make his supporters happy

the freedom caucus are trumps most loyal supporters

they want the democrats to believe the only way to fix the broken system is to implode it from within

kinda like when they build a new casino in vegas

blow up the old and build new from ground up

the problem with blowing up the entire system is this ..

like it or not the country cannot be blown up all at once

the 2 party system is not perfect but it keeps one side functioning at a time

trump was the perfect demolition man though .. but he fell short

he will only blow up the republican party before leaving office

and with trump blowing up the republican party

the democrats will be stronger than ever

 

Take it up with the left as I am not a member. I was simply telling you what I saw reported.

 

BUT we know that Hunter was taking in substantial money he wasn't qualified to earn.
We have every reason to believe that this is only because he was Biden's son, and done to give Burisma a channel to inside our Washington politics.
We know that the new government in the Ukraine was trying to clean up corruption,and was investigating Burisma.
We also have new information that indicates the DNC was apparently trying to get dirt on Trump during the election- and that may have involve Biden in the dossier scheme as well.
We know that Biden pulled a very specific threat- blocking a $1B aid deal to force the investigator to be fired, and that worked.
Now when this started, Biden was not running, and during part of it he was the VP. Those actions have nothing to do with the fact he later decided to run.
We also know that Biden never has had much strength as a candidate, and so was not a threat-there was no need to do anything elaborate to deal with him,
However, there is reason to believe that he may have been involved in earlier corruption being investigated and was definitely the person making a real Quid-Pro-Quo exchange to quell that investigation, and he has openly bragged about doing it.

The aspect of Biden's candidacy almost irrelevant here- it's so minuscule among the many reasons that we should investigate those arrangements that only a person dodging the truth and covering up would object to the president being concerned with corruption on that scale. The objection is clothed as an accusation-
But it fact, it is a democrat ploy; a distraction to keep the focus off the Bidens, off the truth, and protect the real guilty ones.

Trump had nothing to gain; but the dems and Bidens have a great deal to protect.
Being prominent does not relieve or protect anyone from their obligation to ethical conduct. Bidens conduct appears to have violated several of those codes.
(standards of ethical conduct regulation (5 C.F.R. part 2635)

The president was right to want this investigated- just as the Bidens were wrong to use the power of Joe's office as he did. Unfortunately, the dems are blind in one eye about such things- and that will play a role in their downfall.

 

I resolutely stand against those with a vested interest in the outcome of an investigation playing any part in an investigation as to do so is to openly invite bias. I have no political loyalty thus it does not matter to me at all if it is a Republican, Democrat, Independent, Green Party, Libitarian or any other political group. As I am not a legal expert I make no claims as to what constitutes probable cause although in my opinion, to allow those with a vested interest in the outcome of an investigation to participate in said investigation is to allow corruption of the process.

 

I do not oppose an investigation into the Biden’s, but I do have a big problem with those who have a vested interest in the outcome of an investigation (Trump) playing a part in said investigation as to do so is to openly invite bias into the investigation.

Claiming presidents do not recuse themselves is not evidence that none ever have nor does it mean that it cannot be done. I agree that Biden should have recused himself as Trump should have too.

 

Yes, optics. Does it rise to impeachment? That begs the question of the investigation using the power of government intelligence agencies to spy on the Trump campaign.

 

Obama never ran against Trump in any election. Your talking point is BS. Try again.

 

If a man being placed in a position of power that they are not qualified to fill is a sign of criminal activity then we need to take a hard look at several of Trump’s political appointees. Simply being placed in a position of power that by all outward appearances one is not qualified for is not a crime. Trump made a neurosurgeon the head of the HUD which is silly as he would be better suited to be the Surgeon General. Are you going to call for Trump and his appointees to be investigated? A rhetorical question.

I have no problem with an investigation into the Biden’s, yet as Trump has a vested interest in the outcome of said investigation he should have no part in it. To do otherwise is to openly invite bias into the investigation.

 

Now if only we could get Trump supporters to take issue with Tump for surround himself with corrupt individuals of which 6 and counting have been convicted of crimes. Not to mention how many have left in protest or been fire. The Trump claim that he surrounds himself with the best people rings hollow now.

 

I agree that Biden is dirty and his son made millions of unearned dollars.
So investigate it in a legal way.
Then after the investigation is complete charge him with crimes if considered guilty
Above is exactly what the democrats are doing. like it or not the Democrats are following the laws
They are doing exactly what the republicans did to Clinton. And yes Clinton was guilty and deserved impeachment .when trump is found guilty he will deserve impeachment as well.

 

You mean like Michael Flynn who had his 302 modified to show that he lied when he really didn't? Seems like some people framed him and tried to get a decorated veteran imprisoned for no reason at all.

You mean those types of "criminals"?

 

I agree with Trump as it is a kangaroo court. I clearly see tribalism in the impeachment process as per the largely party line vote in the House and the easily predictable future largely party line vote in the Senate. Political tribalism, where loyalty to party trumps loyalty to country. The impeachment process is fatally flawed as it allows partisans to investigate and judge partisans.

I think that Tump having a hand in investigating a political rival is unethical thus some sort of punishment should be dispensed. Is it alone worthy of impeachment? I’m my opinion yes as it is to take a step towards America becoming a banana republic.

 

Trump will not be found guilty as the impeachment process is a partisan process and there is no way that 20 Republicans will vote against Trump in the Senate. The conclusion of this was decided by Senate Republicans the day the House announced the impeachment of Trump had began.

 

Yes. I stand against all criminal conduct no matter party affiliation. Do not assume me to be a partisan as I am not.