When did you use your gun defensively?

I'm much more likely to die from a plethora of other causes than from suicide by gun.

As typically written, yes. They fail to follow due process, and other than confiscating guns the authorities aren't required or authorized by a red flag law to actually address the suicidal tendencies of the target of a red flag laws. No other means of suicide like belts or ropes are confiscated and no mental health services are offered, much less required.

Where does the federal government get the Constitutional authority to ban tobacco? We could save thousands of lives and reduce all levels of violence by putting all males age 15-29 into re-education camps. Why don't we?

Why aren't the Democrats in Congress doing anything?

Neither SBRs nor suppressors would be considered "in common use for lawful purposes" under NFA 1934, US v Miller, Heller or Caetano, yet I can certainly walk around with one of the suppressed SBRs that I legally own.

Gun control laws have to be Constitutional, and should be effective and enforceable. I'm more than willing to discuss the Constitutionality, efficacy and enforceability of any specific law. "Gun control" without details is meaningless.

It's not sufficient to infringe the rights of the people. If it were there wouldn't be a need for the Bill of Rights at all.

The government has no Constitutional obligation to protect anyone. See Warren v DC and Castle Rock v Gonzales.

 

Yes... and to not qualify as an infringement, a restrictions must be both demonstrably necessary and effective.
None of the restrictions you seek - and the huge majority of those in place - do not qualify.

 

Especially when "empathy" is measured in how much of other peoples' money you can spend.

 

Indeed it is. As a liberal I’m well aware of that. But unfortunately progressivism takes it a step further to where actions driven by empathy based on evidence are replaced by actions based on pure emotion with no foundation in evidence.

You have stumbled into a progressive view here, not a liberal one. Evidence shows taking people’s firearms to prevent firearm suicide does in fact prevent firearm suicide. But there is no solid evidence it prevents suicide. In some cases it increases suicide.

https://ps.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ps.201700250

When you let your emotions override evidence you focus on the inanimate object instead of the actual problem which is depression or hopelessness. A liberal will address the depression and hopelessness out of empathy. You take the progressive approach of ignoring the actual problem while focusing on inanimate and inconsequential metrics based on your emotional reaction to firearms.

 

Brilliant!

 

I was a Peace officer for 24 years and never once unholstered my gun (except at the pistol range). Now that I'm retired I no longer have any guns except for a Daisy BB rifle for varmints and critters.

 

I use fire extinguishers the same way, everyone in my family has one in their vehicle and I have a few in the home 2 in the kitchen, I hope I never need one but it is much better to have one then to need one and not have it, I learned that the hard way.

I once had a 1969 Plymouth GTX with a 440 CI engine in it, coupled to one of my modified reverse shift B727 TorqueFlite auto tranny's, I had pretty much restored it back to showroom condition, had it painted Hemi Orange with the factory flat black center hood, one of the mods I did on it was to install 2 Holley 4BBL carbs on a milled down 413 cross over manifold, that car could pass anything but a gas station.

One afternoon I was on SE 7th Ave heading North over the Marshall Street Bridge, while waiting to turn left on west Las Olas Blvd I thought I smelled raw gas.

While the Holly 4 BBL was a excellent carb, much better than the Carter 4 BBL that Plymouth used it had a well known problem when used for drag racing, after a few thousand miles due to the vibration induced into the carb by the engine the transfer tube from the front float chamber to the rear float chamber would begin to leak gas, the solution was to replace the O-rings on the tube on a regular basis, at the time I didn't know this.

As I turned left the car stalled out I went to restart it but I noticed black smoke coming out between the rear of the hood and the windshield, I killed the ignition and shut off the power to the dual electric fuel pumps got out and opened the hood, the rear carb was on fire, I had nothing to put it put with.

While yelling at people driving by to call the fire department which was literally a half mile West of me I started to scrape up sand from the side of the road and a persons yard.

A just off duty FLPD officer stopped to try to help but he had his personal car and no extinguisher either, he did have his radio and called dispatch to roll the FD, a elderly lady came out of her home and pulled her garden hose toward my car but it was 15 or so feet short of making it, she still tried and did actually get some water under the hood,.

The officer got a small camping shovel out of his trunk and started to get a good amount of sand on the fire and just about had it out, then a disaster, the fire had gotten under the dashboard burning the wiring causing the dual fuel pumps to run, this created a huge fire under the hood as well under the car setting the road on fire.

All we could do is stand back and watch while hearing the sirens of the fire trucks approaching.

They finally got the fire under control, cut the battery cable and shut down the fuel, but the car was a total loss.

I was standing there about to drop to the sidewalk when one of the FD guys noticed both of my hands where bleeding, unknown to me the sand I was scraping up from the gutter had broken glass in it from car accidents and I had sliced my hands up rather badly, they washed my hands with some solution and asked me if I wanted to go to the hospitable, I didn't want to go to there I really just wanted to sit down and give up.

I thanked the lady and the officer for all they had done and had the PD call a wrecker to tow my car to my home.

Once I had the car towed to my home a few blocks another on-duty officer gave me a ride home, on the way he asked me a few times if I was ok, I assured him I was going to be fine in a few days.

That officer came back to my house a couple of hours later just to make sure I was ok, a very nice gesture which I thanked him for doing.

Lesson learned, never would I drive a vehicle that didn't have at least 1 fire extinguisher in the trunk, in my cars I have always had 2 just in case.

Like a firearm it is so much better to have one and never need it versus needing one and not having it.

 

That was quite typical at one time, I rode shotgun with the Fort Lauderdale Police Department for a little over 4 years and we made countless traffic stops and never once did an officer I was riding with draw his gun, the only times I ever saw them draw their guns was when responding to a robbery in progress call.

 

I have been bit by dogs three times, the first two was because I ran and they caught me, these where dogs who's owners assured me where safe to be around, the third time I asked the owner to put the dog up in a room, he assured me the dog was friendly, I asked him again to put the dog up, he refused so i turned around to go to my truck and he sicced the dog on me, it got a good hold on my left leg and was trying to pull me out of the truck, I hosed it down with a container of dog Mace we where issued to carry, it let go, I slammed the door drove away and called the police, they showed up and called EMS, they showed up literally cut my pants leg open and wrapped my leg in gauze to stop the bleeding.

They wanted to transport me but I declined and told them I would drive myself to the ER for some reason they followed me there.

While being treated a officer showed up and had me explain again what happen and asked me if I wanted to press charges which I did, I was informed, based on what I told the first officer the owner of the dog had been arrested and they where waiting on Animal Control to pick the dog up to be held as the owner refused to provide proof of a rabies shot, I was advised I might have go through a series of shots shots for rabies, but the owner eventually gave up and provided proof that the dog had it's current shots, so all I needed was a tetanus shot.

Even though the owner provided the current information, they still took him off to jail and charged him with aggravated assault and resisting arrest.

Sadly for the dog Animal Control put it down because it bit a person and therefore was considered a dangerous animal while in reality the owner was the dangerous animal.

The owner was found guilty of AA, the resisting charge was dropped and he was sentenced to 6 months of reporting and ordered to pay my medical bills.

I lawyered up and we sued him for my bills, lost time and other damages, the case never went to trial, his homeowners insurance company agreed to a fair settlement and I out that incident in my rear view mirror.

But it did teach me a lesson, never turn my back on a dog and never trust a dog's owner, some of them are real nut jobs.

 

Wow this is amazing, finally someone who really understands the root cause of the problem.

And it's not the tool.

 

That is a sad, sad story that perfectly demonstrates the point of being prepared for less than ideal circumstances. There are no do-overs. You are either prepared or you suffer the consequences. I certainly don’t want to see anyone pay with their life.

 

~ In case anyone gets bored here are some situations where self defense with a firearm was necessary.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/true-stories-november-december-2021/

https://www.heritage.org/firearms/c...cidents-gun-owners-defended-life-and-property

 

Emotions? I don't know about Connecticut's red flag law, but in Indiana, when family members call the police because of suicidal threats (with or without a gun) they make a wellness check run. If there is a gun they take it, put that person in emergency detention and it's off to the ER to be seen by a doctor and social worker to decide if they need a 72 hour hold for psych eval, are amendable to outpatient therapy or it's all a big misunderstanding. There is more to the law, down the road, about getting the gun back and whether they will be able to purchase another gun. Not perfect, but better than nothing and seems to work better than Connecticut's plan. The focus is on the actual problem despite your dismissiveness.

 

None of the bolded text applies to the federal bills for Red Flag laws.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th...xtreme","Risk","Protection","Order"]}&r=1&s=2

 

Yet there is no clear reduction in suicide. So no, the problem is not being addressed.

 

3M times is 8000+ every day, so I find that claim hard to believe.

I never had to use one, but since I live in Florida you never know what happens next. Crime is common.

 

I have my 20 lb dog on his cable run in my yard this morning. And here came a large stray.

Checking out my dog so I told it to go on and get. It just stared at me until I got my bull whip off the porch and cracked it, then it took off.

Twice over the years I have kept pit bulls off my ass on my bicycle with one that I kept vin my saddlebags. You don't even have to hit them, just crack it close to them

 

There is what at least 360 million people in the United States? And what do you think there's about 90 regular posters here at PF? And look at what percent of those have used a firearm over the years

 

Those who die from tobacco use are important, just not as important as those who don't have bad habits. The world is not always fair or equitable. Often times those who make poor decisions get the short end of the stick and sometimes those who make the best decisions... also get the short end...

The only wiggle room in the Second Amendment has been forced in there by the gun control crowd, by those who don't value the Second Amendment as much as they value the other Amendments. According to the Second Amendment I should be able to have an M1A1 tank on my front lawn, an M2 mounted on my front porch and an M16 in the corner! Of course, being serious, what would I want with an M16.

While public safety is a very compelling interest, it is not the only compelling interest. I would argue I am getting two birds with one stone. I carry a gun because I can and by doing so I am promoting public safety. Think safety?... Watch the video that @Well Bonded posted at #99.

 

Good point. I believe the US population is closer to 330 million. I was recently reading the results of a Pew Research survey which indicated that 72% of Americans have fired a gun. 330 or 360, 72% is still a lot of people who have used a firearm at some time in their life.

 

We're talking about a state law.

We're talking about confiscating guns from a psychologically compromised individual and that's a bad idea?
Per your study: "Of the 762 individuals exposed to firearm seizures between 1999 and 2013 in Connecticut, 21 committed suicide (six via firearm) (3). In Indiana, 404 people were exposed to firearm seizure in Marion County (Indianapolis) between 2006 and 2013 (5), although outcomes of these cases are unknown.

In this study, we evaluated the effect of firearm seizure legislation in Connecticut and Indiana on state-level suicide rates.

Little evidence of a replacement effect was found in Indiana, and results showed a substantial aggregate decrease in suicides.

These findings suggest that firearm seizure legislation is associated with meaningful reductions in population-level firearm suicide rates, with mixed evidence for a replacement effect."
The study was going by overall suicide outcomes by state, not red flag outcomes, so all this proves is red flag laws need to be used more often.

Yeah, that was the most extreme estimate number I found and I don't believe it.
What was that one time of defensive use?

 

Defensive use includes a mere mention of a gun, which means that even unarmed people can do it.

I own guns, but never had to one it defensively.

 

I have never taken my firearm out of it's holster other than cleaning and target practice. Having it, however, has provided peace of mind when I have had to be in places that I would rather not be, at times only the foolish would find useful.

 

The Democrats in Congress are not. In fact, a Connecticut representative was a co-sponsor of the federal bill that doesn't provide any mental health care for the subject of a Red Flag action.

But we aren't talking just about this. We're talking about taking guns from someone subject to a Red Flag seizure, someone who doesn't have to have actually been diagnosed by a mental health professional or even met with one. We're talking about taking guns from someone who not only isn't taking part in the legal procedures and in fact doesn't even know that a legal procedure against him has taken place. All Red Flags need is someone convincing a judge that the armed person is a potential threat to himself/herself or others.

That's the problem I have with Red Flag laws - the lack of due process.

 

Where is that stated?

Which proves nothing.