Where Did the Trinity Teaching Come From?

Matthew 3:17

 

WOW - you're pulling my leg - A voice from heaven ? Which loon is supposed to have heard that "voice " .? Was it Mathew or more fiction written in 2nd century ?


Do you always believe people who claim to have heard voices from heaven ?


Gertcha . LOL .

 

You'd be right in thinking I was lying , that is if interepreted my posts as statements of fact , instead of recognizing it as QUESTIONS .


A) So you believe everying in the bible , OT + NT , do you ?

Do you believe whatever you do due to indoctrination or after in depth rational analysis. ?
Being able to think for yourself instead of what you've been systematically been told to believe. ?

.


That's where we differ. In the real world , I've survived , often due to having thought of contingency plans. If the sky is cloudy , WHAT IF it should rain , ? Like setting out on extra- long journey checking WHAT IF the car broke down , that I'll not bee too far away from a petrol (gas) station.

So it happened exactly the way your god planned it to happen , right ? Then the Jews /Pharisees/Romans and no one else was to blame . It was your god who wanted it to happen, same as all the human sufferings + disasters., WOT ?

I confess , I really havent a foeking clue what your god is doing .

NOT stabbing - just seeking for rational /believable facts in an ocean of farcically childish stories . as depicted in yr bible.


......

 

You asked, I answered........sorry

 

ALTER2EGO -to- ELIJAH:
Considering that you can't find a single verse where the word "Trinity" appears in the Bible or a single verse where Jesus said "I and the Father and the holy spirit are the same god," you are hardly in a position to point fingers. On the other hand, I presented several scriptures that described Jesus Christ as a created being. In the rules of hierarchy, a created being cannot share equality with the one who created him.

1. Colossians 1:15 in the KJV refers to Jesus as the "firstBORN of every CREATURE."

2. John 1:14 and John 3:16 refer to Jesus as "only BEGOTTEN son".

SUGGESTION: Look up the meaning of the words "born" and "creature" and "begotten" and see what it says. I will help you out with a definition of each. Then you can go online and check other dictionaries, or else use a print version.


DEFINITION OF "CREATURE":
A creature is a person, animal or other being, real, imaginary or mythical.
http://www.yourdictionary.com/creature?


DEFINITION OF "BORN":
Born means having been given life.
http://www.yourdictionary.com/born


DEFINITION OF "BEGOTTEN":
Begotten means something created something else or someone fathered a child.
http://www.yourdictionary.com/begotten


Since the Bible makes it clear Jesus existed in heaven before he came to the earth as an infant, the only way he could be "firstBORN of all CREATURES" and "only begotten" would be if he had been created prior to all other created persons (angels or humans) and things. Likewise, the fact that the pre-human Jesus was with Jehovah assisting with the creating before the existence of anybody and anything else (before the creation of the earth, the heavens, and other angels, etc.), this indicates he is the most powerful of Jehovah's angelic creatures.


The scripture a Proverbs where it speaks of "Wisdom" has a dual meaning. That scripture is not merely talking about wisdom, it's dual meaning is with reference to the pre-human Jesus Christ.

"{22} Jehovah himself produced me as THE BEGINNING of his way, THE EARLIEST OF HIS ACHIEVEMENTS of long ago. {23} From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. {24} When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. {25} Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, {26} when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. {27} When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, {28} when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, {29} when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, {30} then I CAME TO BE BESIDE HIM AS A MASTER WORKER, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, {31} being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were the sons of men." (Proverbs 8:22-31)


Compare what I just quoted from Proverbs with what is written at Genesis 1:1-31 and at Colossians 1:15-17, and you will see the connection. This will be my last response to you on this topic. I will not be responding to you again regarding the pagan Trinity as this conversation is clearly not going anywhere.


I am leaving you to your beliefs.

 

You're leaving because you can't back up your JW's beliefs. I'll accept your white flag.

 

Don't leave us to our beliefs, leave your wrong beliefs and convert to Real Christianity not your fake Christianity the Mormons.

 

NOT so , my two questions :

was NOT answered . wazzit ?


....

 

It was matthew who wrote it, and the hearers at the baptism, and I believe scripture.

 

If that's what you choose to believe - FINE - but just dont expect everyone else to be that daft.


Some people would rather exercise their brain cells and think for themselves instead of swallowing several centuries old stories written by dubious authors.


.....

 

The fool in his heart says there is no God.

 

Where did I say that ?

and how the fok would a lame-brain idiot claim to know what's in my heart ?


...

 

That's another point were we differ - your "scriptures " /"gospels " are no more valid -truthful - IMO - as the scriptures of Hinduism/Shintoism/Talmud /Zoroastrianism or any other belief system .

 

ALTER2EGO -to- SASSY:
The reason for that should be obvious to anyone who has been reading my posts. I pay attention to context—the surrounding words, verses, and chapters. Those that refuse to accept what the Bible is really saying because of their love affair with false religious doctrines like the Trinity do the exact opposite. They routinely ignore context and cherry pick verses and even words within verses, while ignoring everything else that surrounds the cherry picked words. When shown the dictionary definition of words like "born" and "begotten," they reject even that because it debunks the Trinity. In other words, this isn't even about what the Bible says anymore. It's about what certain people choose to believe. That's why I ended the discussion with Elijah, WanRen and BFSmith, because they indicated they were not willing to be corrected by the scriptures.

"{16} All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for SETTING THINGS STRAIGHT, for disciplining in righteousness, {17} that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

~***~​

 

ALTER2EGO -to- SASSY:
In this instance, the philosophy is the Trinity dogma that was brought into Christianity by the Roman Catholics. And you're right when you point out there should not be arguments over the scriptures. That's why I ended the discussion when I realized the Trinitarians were not willing to submit to Biblical correction. Once I saw that they had no intention of being corrected by the scriptures, I ended the discussion with each of them so it would not turn nasty.

 

ALTER2EGO -to- SASSY:
Then how do you explain the accurate fulfillment of almost 2,000 Bible prophecies? Some of these prophecies have been confirmed by archeology and secular history—which has no connection with the Judeo-Christian Bible.

While you DO NOT consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God, many who consider it to be inspired routinely ignore what it says in preference for manmade traditions and philosophies such as the pagan Trinity and the hellfire doctrine—both of which are nowhere to be found in the Bible. Both doctrines came through the Roman Catholics who adapted them from pagan religions.

 

ALTER2EGO -to- MARLOWE:
Your presumption is wrong. I don't believe in any of the mythical characters you listed here--including the mythical Neanderthals that evolution theorists dreamed up. The Bible speaks of a rebellious angel called Satan the Devil. The name "Lucifer" does not appear in any accurate translation of the scriptures.

ALTER2EGO -to- MARLOWE:
Evidence that the Bible was written under divine inspiration from Jehovah God is presented in the form of almost 2,000 accurately fulfilled Bible prophecies. Some of these have been confirmed by archeology and secular history. Because of the aforementioned, I am convinced the Bible is authentic when it presents itself as the the inspired Word of God. Therefore, I have confidence that when the Bible speaks about angels, that is likewise accurate. Do I expect to convince you? I think not.

ALTER2EGO -to- MARLOWE:
The book of Colossians was written by the Apostle Paul, while in Rome. It was completed around 60-61 AD/CE.

 

Don't you know that the scripture say a Jew is one that is inwardly? A true Jew is one that is born of the Spirit and not one that is born of the flesh.

 

See how far that will get you in Israel.

 

Do you really think I care about that.....do you think I want to go to the State of Israel?

 

then who is God and where do you get your info from? and I'll leave the name calling out of it.

 

I have no idea what you want to do. My comment was directed to your statement and applies to anyone who would say it in Israel. The locals would go nuts.

 

Well, I am not in Israel and if I was it would not stop me from saying it.

 

Anyone who has ever read the Bible knows that the "trinity" is clearly discussed.

1John 5:6-8 (KJV) = 6 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

The phony Bible of the Jehovah Witnesses (the New World Translation) rewrote that passage to delete the idea of the "trinity".

Notice the difference:

1 John 5:6-8 (NWT) = 6 This is he that came by means of water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. And the spirit is that which is bearing witness, because the spirit is the truth.

7 For there are three witness bearers,

8 the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement.

If you're going to argue about the fairy tale read it first.

 

ALTER2EGO -to- THE WYRD OF GAWD:

you have no credibility as far as deciding what is false or true Christian teachings because you are an atheist. You reject both God and his inspired Word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. Your screen name speaks for itself. In other words, you could care less about the Trinity or any religious doctrine. Your sole purpose for showing up in threads dealing with Christian doctrines is to flame Christians. I've seen you amuse yourself with members of Christendom who clearly are not Jehovah's Witnesses. Now you've decided to make me a part of your entertainment. I will tolerate you for now. When I get bored with you, I will put you on my "Ignore" list.

I'm about to debunk your argument for the verse of scripture at 1 John 5:7, so get ready. Before I do that, let me say this: The fact that I quote scriptures and identify them with Bible book, chapter, and verse indicates that I want others to confirm the accuracy of my quotations in their own Bible. The New World Translation is simply a modern English translation of the Bible. The King James Version is written in 17th century English that I don't find to be practical.


Ironically, while you and others attack the New World Translation simply because it was published by Jehovah's Witnesses, it's the King James Version that actually contains a long list of translation blunders. The KJV contains 40 verses of fabricated scriptures that don't belong in the Bible from the get-go. One of the fabricated verses is the scripture at 1 John 5:7, known as the Johannine Comma aka the Comma Johanneum.

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one." (1 John 5:7)

Those extra words are absent from the Greek manuscripts and only appeared in the text of four manuscripts during the late medieval period (the Middle Ages), or between the 10th and 15th century AD. Keep in mind that the last book of the Bible was written in the 1st century AD. In effect, those fabricated words showed up at least 1,000 years after the Bible had been completed.


Since the KJV was translated in A.D. 1611, many Biblical manuscripts have been discovered that are older and more accurate than the manuscripts the KJV is based on. Those older manuscripts do not contain the fabricated words found at 1 John 5:7. For that reason, several modern translations have removed those words from their Bibles. You won't find 1 John 5:7 in the following Bibles: the New International Version, New American Standard, New World Translation, New Living Translation, and several others. Below is the reason why.

http://www.bible-researcher.com/comma.html