Whose Crimea

It was before the voting:

[video=youtube;necH6YFvScc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=necH6YFvScc[/video]
[video=youtube;tSJiNRuPmgc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSJiNRuPmgc[/video]
[video=youtube;Rx4DuBPKr5M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx4DuBPKr5M[/video]

 

A country in which there was no protest citizens against the authorities? Political struggle sometimes reached up to the revolution. People living in the Crimea were citizens of Ukraine, but I do not agree with the political changes in their country does not give them the right to hold separate from the rest of the citizens of Ukraine to hold a referendum on joining the other country. And the main thing in this matter is that the referendum was held after the appearance of green men with machine guns in the Crimea. Maybe you still tell us who they are green men in uniform but without insignia, and to which army they belonged. Maybe it's the American troops? What do you think, who are they? We only know one thing, they spoke in Russian.

If you are interested in Chechnya, then I have here in the forum there is a topic of the fight of the Chechen people for their freedom.http://www.politicalforum.com/russi...chechnya-road-power-revival-empire-putin.html

 

Sorry, Sir. The answer to my question you do not. We fix it.

The Chechens were Russian nationals..... when they began the war for freedom.

(*)You get that:
The Chechens have the right to fight for freedom, but Russian (Crimean residents) do not have such a right.

Russian = second-class citizens?
Are you a racist? Are you a Nazi?

 

1...it's True, but ...
It was after the coup in Kiev. Yanukovych actually toppled on 22 February.

2..."green men" = It is not quite clear "de iure" doing ..... its Russia help for residents of the Crimea ... protection from the rebels.

3....Sorry, Sir.
Who told you that Russia invaded Ukraine and seized the Crimea?

(*)The rebels, overthrew the legitimate President of Ukraine, told you that?

 

Any coup doesn`t give Russia the right to invade, to occupy, to oppress minorities (Crimean Tatars).
It`s Hitler`s logic. Hitler said that Germans had the right to invade, to occupy, to oppress others.

And Russians soldiers had killed Ukrainians servicemen before Russia "de facto" ratified annexation.
Russian troops did military invasion and seize, it`s strong fact.


Russian propaganda documentary “Crimea. The Way Home” shown in Russia on 15 March 2015 was inspired by the 1939 German Nazi documentary “German Sudetenland Returns Home”.

Both videos portray German/Russian aggressors as saviors and liberators, and both try to convince their audience that invasion of neighboring countries and annexation of their territories is a legitimate right of the country-aggressor.

The irony is that in both of these propaganda videos the invaded countries (Czechoslovakia and Ukraine) are shown as cruel monsters and fascists, while the fascist regimes that attacked these countries are shown as peaceful liberators. According to these videos, Russia has saved Crimean Russians from devilish Ukrainians, just as Germany saved Sudeten Germans from devilish Czechs.

Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d9b_1...AFuKwQDchdF.99

 

Crimea has a complicated history, and historically was more like a frontier territory at the edge of civilization, that saw an incursion of many different ethnic groups during different periods over its long history.

Today it is obvious that Crimea should become a part of either the Ukraine or Russia, but which one exactly is a more difficult question. Geographically, it appears that it would be more appropriate for Crimea to adhere to the Ukraine, but on the other hand, the majority of the population currently settled in the Crimea lean more Russian, culturally and linguistically. Although, of course, the difference between the Russian and Ukrainian ethnicity, culture, and language is not very big. And Russia also desires to hold Crimea to control naval bases, to have the capability to further project its influence in the Black Sea region.

This is a really difficult question, and is a big part of why the issue is so contentious.

 

If Russian is not carried out the genocide of the Tatar people in Crimea, there would be no question today whose Crimea. Russia after the capture of the Crimea, oppressed indigenous people, most of the Tatars fled to Turkey, and in 1944 had a Russian ethnic cleansing deported all the indigenous people of Crimea to Siberia and Kazakhstan desert. They took out the Crimean indigenous people in cattle cars, stuffed cars people so that even sit down it was not possible. Many people died in cars. After the deportation, оutside Homeland halved the number of Tatar people.

 

I am completely unconcerned with everything but this: what does the local population actually want?

 

1...Show the fact please.

2...You did not answer the question.
"Who told you that Russia invaded Ukraine and Crimea captured".
The inhabitants of the Crimea, did not claim that Russia invaded Crimea.

You ignore the opinion of the inhabitants of the Crimea?Their opinion does not interest you?

 

1....Americans did interned Japanese during the 2 war. Interned a lot of US citizens for no reason........ For caution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans

2...Stalin had reason to intern ( to deported ) the Crimean Tatars (from which you make the innocent lambs.)

20,000 Crimean Tatars (Almost all ) deserted in 1941 from the 51st Army and moved to the side of Hitler. It is a fact.
Tatars actively assisted the SS.
Only there was no guerrilla groups (in Crimea).
The Tartars gave Russian spies in the SS.
The Tartars committed atrocities worse than the SS.

( 1944. There was a war. )

 

There`s a lot of evidences that Russian Troops had invaded Crimea before the Voting. It`s the invasion, "de jure" and "de facto" anyway.

[video=youtube;tSJiNRuPmgc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSJiNRuPmgc[/video]

Inhabitants` opinion is very interesting for me, so I can`t trust the Voting after Russian invasion and assaut, its results are distorted. I can`t trust the Voting without international monitoring. We all know Russian can falsify any election.

Yes, some Russians welcomed invaders. It`s typical. Iraqis welcomed US troops. Europeans welcomed nazi Army. It isn`t a point.

Wow, wow, wow...
It is real, modern Russians are saying by words of nazi Germans.

Hitler had a reason to oppress Jews. Stalin had a reason to oppress Crimean Tatars. Putin has a reason to oppress Crimean Tatars.

Russia’s War Against Crimean Tatars

More and more Russians look like Germans in 1938. Russians and Germans-1938 are advocating their invasion, occupation and oppression of minorities in the same way

Russian propaganda documentary “Crimea. The Way Home” shown in Russia on 15 March 2015 was inspired by the 1939 German Nazi documentary “German Sudetenland Returns Home”.

Both videos portray German/Russian aggressors as saviors and liberators, and both try to convince their audience that invasion of neighboring countries and annexation of their territories is a legitimate right of the country-aggressor.

The irony is that in both of these propaganda videos the invaded countries (Czechoslovakia and Ukraine) are shown as cruel monsters and fascists, while the fascist regimes that attacked these countries are shown as peaceful liberators. According to these videos, Russia has saved Crimean Russians from devilish Ukrainians, just as Germany saved Sudeten Germans from devilish Czechs.

Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d9b_1...AFuKwQDchdF.99

 

This is Inhabitants` opinion .

This is not of Russian propaganda.
This is not Hollywood.
It is SNN.
This historical video document .

/
[video=youtube;ydGE8TN0MQA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydGE8TN0MQA[/video]

 

It`s not a point. Some people always welcome occupant. You're saying like Hitler's propaganda. Sudeten Germans also greatly welcomed nazi troops.

https://youtu.be/ng-uE0O_ltE?t=96

Russia invaded, occupied, organized false Voting and annexed Crimea. Russia violated Budapest Memorandum. And now Russia oppresses Crimean minorities.
And any internal issue (for example, the coup) does not give a legitimate reason for it.

 

Then we have to deport the Russian people. Known historical fact the whole of General Vlasov's army crossed over to the side of Germany. By the way, Romania was an ally of Germany, and it was necessary to deport the Romanian people.

 

Some Russians welcomed the hitler invaders. Some Belarusians, some Ukrainians ....
Crimean Tatars almost everything.It is a fact.

 

Americans do not know the history of the Crimea. They are easy to fool.

You speak as if good and gentle Tatars lived in the Crimea, but suddenly they were attacked by the evil Russian ...
here the real story problems.

http://virgin-o-logy.com/virginity_and_society_virgin-o-logy_com_page_09.html

Russian came and stopped this mess.
P.S.
Angry Russian did not sell these Crimean Tatars into slavery.

 

1 ... Vlasoves received from Stalin much more than the Tartars.

2 ... Romanians not deserted from the Russian army. The Romanians were not citizens of the USSR. The Romanians were not traitors.

 

It is not only in one General Vlasov, to the enemy moved his entire army with all the weapons. If you say that for the fact that there were cases of Crimean Tatars, Germans support and for this it is necessary to expel the Tatar people of the motherland in full force, the Russian army soldiers Vlasov also were citizens of the USSR, and following your logic, it is necessary to send the entire Russian people. And there is the fact that the Crimean Tatars were armed and acted as a part of a whole army against the Soviet Union. It should be noted that the modern history does not know the case that the whole army passed over to the enemy, as did the Russian army of General Vlasov.

 

The issue is that the Soviets brought in Russians under the policy of "Russification" into surrounding nations to weaken the local populations and strengthen centralized control. Incentives were often used, Russians who moved to the new territories were given housing. Indigenous populations were replaced in whole or part with loyal ethnic Russians, who helped cement outlying areas to the Soviet core. This was done in the Baltic, Ukraine, Caucasia, Central Asia, Siberia, and inside Russia itself. These displacements and replacements were carried out through both forced migrations, confiscation of property, and not uncommonly even outright killings, but the result was always the same - the small country or region victimized was left more "diverse", but also more divided between its indigenous inhabitants, who often favored independence or more autonomy, and Russians and Russian-speakers loyal to Moscow.

This historical legacy has left many of the people in these now independent nations resentful of the Russian population that still lives within their borders, a Russian population that prefers to maintain closer and more cooperative ties to Russia.

So the Ukrainians do not see the desires of "local" population in Crimea as legitimate. They see it as the Russians trying to steal away a territory that is rightfully part of the Ukraine.

 

That is regrettable, but the damage is done. If the region currently wants secession, I see no reason to deny it to them.

 

The Russians were okay with the Crimea under Ukranian control, as long as their access to the warm water port of Sevastapol remained unthreatened. The CIA decided to overturn the status quo by engineering an anti-Russian coup. This move was doomed from the beginning.

The end result is a permanently divided Ukraine and the east under official, as well as just de facto, Russian control. Russia outwitted the West, and the Ukrainians found out the hard way who wields the real power in the region.

 

Yep. It's regrettable that the population composition was changed, but now that's happened there is no solution except to give them their independence. Forcing a populace to remain in a federation seems to me to be fundamentally immoral. Either deport them through force, or give them freedom.

 

version of the Russian barbarian.

"Territory rightfully belongs to the people who live on it."

question for Western democrats:
Which option is the most consistent with the values ​​of Western democracy?

 

It`s murky conspiracy. You can even say about coup supported by extraterrestrials with the same proving.

Ukraine`s Constitution declares Euro Integrative incentives and there`re others Laws declare Russian bases in Crimea as temporary located.
Russia signed agreements about their temporary bases in Ukraine. Russia also signed Budapest Memorandum as guarantor of the Ukrainian sovereignty.
Temporary exploitation of Russian bases would expire in 2017, so Russia had incentive to occupy other`s sovereign territory, or to control Ukraine as colony and to have their permanent military bases on Ukrainian territory.

Russia supported pro-Russian lobby by pro-Russian autocratical President and his Party, they together had sabotaged Constitution and its declared Eurointegration. US supported pro-West movement in Ukraine as setoff.
But US did not invade Ukraine by US Troops.

When pro-Russian autocrat had fled, Russian Troops invaded Ukraine and occupied its territory. It is against all signed by Russia Agreements, it is against Budapest Memorandum.
Any internal coup doesn`t give to Russia the Right to occupy. It was the Right of Nazi Germany to occupy for any reason.

It`s laughable. Russia with its weak economy can't outwit more powerful states. Russia can`t keep up with occupied Crimea as well.
[video=youtube;UBN23-IUCDg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBN23-IUCDg[/video]

 

The fact that the West is not able to respond quickly to the brazen antics of Russia. The West still has not made an adequate response to sudden military actions of Russia in Europe. NATO has not made such sharp statements about Russian incursions into the airspace of NATO in Turkey, when Turkey had to finally bring down Russian bomber. Instead of being politically and economically isolate the aggressor, the West adopted a weak economic sanctions and continuing to buy from the Russian oil and gas.