Why Black people are afraid of ‘crazy’ White people

I hope that can see that the reason I am pestering you with my questions precisely because I do take the complaints of others seriously. Whether they are "legitimate complaints" depends entirely on the situation.

@Jolly Penguin answered your question about affirmative action (A.A.) as well as I could and I can assure you that the only way that "Dr. A" received and maintains her job is because of A.A. That doesn't mean that I assume that all Black doctors are incompetent beneficiaries of A.A. and I'm sure that many Black doctors had to work even harder to achieve their position because of stressful environments at home. They, too, are victims of A.A. because of the stigma it creates.

I simply feel that A.A. is racist by any measure and does no one any good because racist treatment today does not make up for racism in the past.

Do you feel differently?

Thanks,

 

YES! I'm so sick of that. I don't even have access to affirmative action as a dark skinned Filipino (I get classed as Asian but look black to many people; I can change apparent race by removing my sunglasses), but when people know it exists in my area for other people of other race minority groups, and when they don't look to much into it, they often eye me with suspicion and I can't really blame them for it, but I am sick of having to prove myself again and again to new people I meet who don't know if I'm an AA hire or not.

The sort of racism that Edna and the author she quotes push is thought by them to be benevolent and to help us. They get offended on my behalf and think they can speak for me. That really needs to stop. Nobody speaks for "POC". "POC", meaning not-white, is an incredibly wide variety of individuals, including those of us who do not agree with these racist outlooks and attitudes, and we don't appreciate being lumped in with them just so they can feel they have bigger numbers or some sort of twisted not-white-race solidarity.

Black people are a small number of "POC", but nobody speaks for black people either. That too is a wide variety of individuals, who won't all agree with anyone who purports to speak for the race.

 

@ Jolly Penguin


There's no way that I could pass for anything but a wicked, evil and greedy white devil oppressor with or without sunglasses and even had one job interview in which the interviewer got up, closed her office door and quietly admitted to me that she could only hire a woman or minority for the position and regretted wasting my time.

Rather than get angry and resentful, I went home, took my dog for a walk and decided that it was time for a complete change in vocations since I recognized that I was burning out anyway. (I had been a Psychiatric Case Worker/Counselor for almost 10 years)

It just so happened that an old friend had moved back in town and did blacksmithing as a hobby in NYC. He asked me to help him set up a blacksmith shop to continue his hobby.

Briefly put, I became very interested and taught myself how to blacksmith by reading how-to books, practicing and ruining quit a bit of perfectly good steel. Eventually, I became proficient enough to design and make things that people would buy: wrought iron gates, sculpture, ornamental table bases, andirons & fireplace tools, reproduction Elizabethan artifacts, Civil War cannon parts, unusual door knockers, reproduction harpoon heads, African animals, full scale jazz band figures and on and on.

It also turned out that women are as attracted to blacksmiths as they are to rock stars so I met my delightful wife while doing a public blacksmithing demonstration.

Since my first blacksmith shop was in the same predominately Black, inner-city neighborhood as my home, I could also make specialty tools, car parts etc for my neighbors for free or at a reduced rate.

Even though I incurred several medical conditions from my work, military service, sports, motorcycle accidents, etc, I am grateful that affirmative action prevented me from getting that stressful and thankless job long ago.
I know that not everyone has benefited form affirmative action in the same ways that I have but I still don't think that today's racist policies are the cure for previous racist injustices.

Thanks,

 

The story of Clarence Thomas:
Justice Clarence Thomas cast the deciding vote in the Supreme Court's 5-to-4 decision to narrow federal affirmative-action programs. But Thomas went beyond even fellow conservatives on the bench - he argued for an immediate end to affirmative action.
In an ‘83 speech he said of affirmative action laws- "But for them , God only knows where I would be today. These laws and their proper application are all that stand between the first 17 years of my life and the second 17 years."
As an undergraduate at Holy Cross College, Thomas received a scholarship set aside for racial minorities. He was admitted to Yale Law School in 1971 as part of an aggressive affirmative-action program with a clear goal: 10 percent minority enrollment. Yale offered him generous financial aid.
After admission to law school Thomas had to pass the same course work as everyone else so there is no reason to assume that a graduate from Yale Law School is incompetent because they were admitted through affirmative action.

But the proof is in the pudding. Thomas as a Supreme Court Justice proved to be incompetent and a hypocrite, but entirely not the fault of affirmative action. So in other words, to judge recipients of affirmative action as more than likely incompetent is a bigoted attitude common among conservatives. Recipients have to endure feeling "stigmatized" as Thomas wrote in his new opposition to affirmative action. Apparently he was unaware, when he took all that help to achieve what he has achieved, he would later in life take a right turn and regret how he got where he is, because without it he would not be sitting where he is.
Hopefully, someday affirmative action will be unnecessary. I think its winding down now, but to get a race up to speed after 150 years of segregation and racist institutions its the least we can do.

 

A few questions come to mind when reading that.

Do you think passing is enough?
Did he score near the top of his class?
If not, would the person who didn't get in because he did have done better?
Was he also installed on the Supreme Court due to his race? AA being big in the culture and him having received it before makes us have to question if he did again, and if he did?
If he did, then who would have been in his place if not for AA? Would they have made society a better place?

And, when he did get AA, did the school
1. Launch searches to encourage talented black people to apply and then require all the same standards for entry in a race-blind way?
or
2. Lower bar, and take candidates who applied and are black over equal candidates who applied and are not black?

Finally, do any of the above questions matter to you?

There is no such thing as "getting a race up to speed". Group averages are not individuals. No matter how many privileged black kids you give special perks to, it won't fix the real problems of underprivileged black kids.

 

yet you fail to acknowledge the paymasters behind all of this, the portuguese crown, who paid the "local chiefs" to capture the africans (who were actually black portuguese rebels) who were then given to the european slavers on the coast. so it was actually the portuguese crown that initiated the slave so called trade. this is where the myth of africans selling their own came from.

 

If that's true, then it looks like both are responsible and the guilt of one does not absolve the other.

 

ive never said africans were not involved. in fact ijust stated that this is where the myth of selling their own came from. a myth in the sense that they werent "their own". they were black portuguese that ended up in captivity in america.

this does not absolve the americans from the crime of the trans atlantic so called trade, the captivity was in america. that is the target of prosecution.

 

Re:

It sounds like you regard affirmative action as a temporary and necessary evil to rectify past injustices while I feel that, overall, it does more harm than good to both job seeking Whites and job seeking Blacks.
While I was fortunate, many Whites will resent the injustice of the practice and many Blacks will suffer under the stigma of benefiting from that injustice.

As @Jolly Penguin noted, it is only possible to get wiling members of any race "up to speed", not an entire race as there will always be members of any race who will chose a life of crime over legitimate work.

Finally, who decides when affirmative action has achieved its stated objective and what are the criteria by which the success of affirmative action is measured?

I think that what we should strive for in this country is a situation in which everyone is treated equally because unequal treatment is not a solution for past wrongs?

Thanks,

 

And that means leveling the playing field as much as possible between rich and poor. It isn't fair that some are born into families that provide them immense wealth while others are born into poverty and fatherless homes.

We can make efforts to help with that, we can do it without using race as proxy, and since more of the people needing the help are also black, more black people than white people benefit. And you avoid spinning the wheel of racism this way.

 

I'm afraid of crazy people, regardless of their color. But I can fully understand why Blacks are afraid of 'crazy' Whites.

Yep. Things go away when demand for them does.

 

the only reason america became a super power was 300 years of free labour by millions of so called african americans. the biggest "crime" in history. crime was in inverted commas because technically it wasnt a crime since there was no punishment.

 

Why do you say that it is a myth that Africans sold fellow Africas to Europeans since it is a fact that White Europeans did not go into the jungles and capture Black Africans but bought Africans from fellow Africans?

Thanks,

 

Because it wasn't Africans that were taken by European slavers, it was black Portuguese rebels (expelled during the inquisition) whom were deemed traitors by the portuguese crown due to their (black Portuguese) undermining of portuguese crowns trade with guinea princes.

 

A specific race was chosen to be the victim of structural racism for 150 years leaving them now with double the poverty rate and 1/10 the wealth of whites. As seen here many times conservatives blame African Americans for their own under performance, which is essentially blaming the victim.

Thomas’ father left when he was two. His mother was a domestic and when they became homeless moved in with grandparents. He could not have afforded his higher education. much less getting into Yale without help. He has paid for his two sons college educations. One is now in Harvard law school. None of that would have happened without affirmative action. His sons will have families who will benefit from their grandfather being given a leg up.

The right cries about we need to be color blind, the best person should be the one chosen (did they say that in the 50s). That may be the goal one day but studies have shown society is not color blind and there is continued racial discrimination and discrimination based on income. Affirmative action will in the long run help that. Increasing visibility of African Americans in the professions, in positions of power will normalize the view that they are competent and should not be judged by the color of their skin.

 

The same remains true today for many people. That you seem to think some of them should receive help they need over others based on their race is part of the problem. Why can't you join me in saying all of them should get the help, based on need and not race?

Think about the massive progress that shows. It's the right now saying don't be racist. That was the opposite years ago. The left, btw, isn't all in support of racist policies like you are. Many on the left oppose such racist policies, so please don't try to speak for the left as you tried to speak for POC.

That has always been the goal for those who oppose racism. Your country missed out on a lot of talent and would have done much better had it not excluded so many of the best from being chosen due to racist exclusions historically. Same girls for gender exclusions. Think how many black, female, etc geniuses were probably overlooked simply because of race and gender selection criteria.

 

That's why I support more affordable and accessible health care including mental health care as just one way to benefit the poor of all races.

Also, not everyone needs a university degree but we all need plumbers, auto mechanics, electricians etc (aka the trades).

That's one of the things that impressed me while living in Germany. Regardless of race, master plumbers, master electricians and even master bicycle mechanics had every right to be just as proud of having worked their way up to being a master after years of education, training, apprenticeship as any doctor or lawyer.

There was no negative social stigma at being "just a plumber" nor should there be any negative social stigma in the US at being a master of any of the badly needed trades.

The government paid for initial training in the trades then one worked his or her way up from apprentice to journeyman than master so, regardless of race, one didn't have to chose between a drug dealer or doctor in order to make a respectable living.

These are just two of the ways I feel that the playing field can be leveled without artificial, racist quota systems.

Thanks,

 

I just outlined only 2 ways in which the poor of any race could benefit without relying on racist quota systems.(Post # 142)

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,

 

German trade schools are something to be copied. Ours are a disorganized mess. The Obama administration cracked down on for profit vocational technical schools that were ripping off students like ITT that taught little and made huge profits, leaving graduates in debt and diplomas laughed at by the private sector, but the schools remaining are hit or miss at best.
A family member by marriage, a minority, went to Germany for graduate school. She only had to pay for her books. The number one reason minorities drop out of college are for financial reasons. Other countries can do it but we can't?

 

Please stop being racist about it, so we can all get on the same page. Tuition is pointlessly high. It should be limited or even made free for programs that are actually useful to society.

And do that for everyone, regardless of race.

 

I am currently in the hospital with only my phone and will respond to posts when I get home. Best wishes,
G.