Why did Japan bomb Pearl Harbor?

in 1941 Chinese forces have been driven back all the way to the north and are barely holding on to 1/4 of territories 3/4 of China has fallen under Japanese control and the only reason the Chinese army have been able to hold on was aid coming mainly from the USA and the small and invincible air squadron called the Flying Tigers piloted by American mercenaries that have protected the remaining Chinese held territories from falling into the Japanese as well as kept the supply line open from Burma. Stalin was having serious problem of his own he has to come up with plans to stop other Soviet regions from defecting and joining the Germans eventually Stalin succeeded in stopping other Soviets from defecting by executing anyone including their family members who defect or refuse to fight for him.

Japan need to fully control China and this include getting the ruling members Gen. Chiang Kai Shek to see the Japanese way by joining their Co-Prosperity Sphere what Japan failed to offer the Chinese government is equal status to become part of the Co-Prosperity Sphere. Controlling the sea was Japan's main plan with Japan having full control of the Pacific Ocean they'll be able to block any merchant ship from landing in China this include Australia and eventually force those countries to accept Japan's rule of the Sea.

Bombing Pearl Harbor makes no sense if it is just to draw the USA into the war.

Japan initial plan is fully control China they can not accomplish that with the USA in the way. Once they have China their next step will be USA control islands and territories as already seen with Japan's attempt to seize Midway. Japan is doing what the USA did later in the war the hopping invasion one island at a time, Guam, Wake, Solomon, Midway and eventually Hawaii then the big fish mainland USA.

 

Of course they had long term plans - plans that covered decades.

Most Axis plans predicted a victory in 1944, with the US largely isolated and cut off, with Canada falling into an alliance with them. Her navy destroyed and cut off, they would become an isolationist nation trying to hold back the rising tide.

Because of her power, nations in Africa and South America would join the victorious Germany and Italy in a New Order, as Japan secured East Asia. And by around 1950 a "Cold War" type of situation would arise. With Germany pressing in from the South and East, and Japan from the West.

Any kind of Final War would have not happened until the mid 1960's at the earliest, as superior German and Japanese scientists produced new weapons that could reach the US, and the generation born into the satellite states (and raised to adulthood in Neuropa) would come of age and be trustworthy soldiers in the new Army.

But Hitler would have already retired by this point, he did not expect to remain in power past 1950, these plans would have been achieved by his successors. And for Japan, the time is even more irrelevant since they are part of an Empire that stretched back unbroken for over 2,500 years. At the time that Shamash-Shum-Ukin was leading Babylon in revolt from Assyria (652 BCE), Jimmu, the first in an unbroken line of Japanese Emperors was uniting the island of Japan.

So yes, they both had long term plans, much longer term then I think you even realize. None of the Axis powers expected to see a real end to war until at least the end of the 20th Century (if then). But time was on their side, they represented the "New Order", and they would not be denied.

 

And those supplies from Burma were not coming from the US through the Pacific. They were coming from the UK through India and Burma. So once again, how a US loss in the Pacific would have a direct affect on this I have no idea.

And it was not just the Flying Tigers who were fighting (although they had a glorious legend, they were not as effective as many try to make them out to be). You also had the much larger "Soviet Volunteer Group", which while officially in action for 4 years (1937-1941), were 4 times larger and lasted 8 times longer then the "Flying Tigers".

This constant fantasy world you keep creating is interesting, but has no basis in reality. By the time of Midway the AVG had already been disbanded, and huge numbers of aircraft were arriving in India and Burma for the Chinese Air Force via the UK. They were operating the P-40 (Warhawk), Most of the inventory of the P-66 (Vanguard), and by 1944 even the P-51 (Mustang), B-17 and B-25.

You may be talking fantasy Japanese expectations from a diseased mind, but not the reality of the war in the Pacific theatre. Supply routes to that region came nowhere close to Japanese controlled areas, either going the long way via the South Pacific through Australia then up to India, or to the UK, then around Soviet territory to India then to Burma-China.

 

No- I am saying you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to Japan or Germany's plans.

 

Nonsense. Japan never controlled more then a fraction of CHina, mostly along the coast.







Should we continue this, or not? You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, that much is consistently obvious.

And Japan did not "attack Pearl Harbor to get the US into the war", it attacked it to prevent the US from rushing to the aid of the Philippines, which is what their real goal really was. It was not to get the US into the war at all, it was to prevent them from interfering with their other campaigns against British territories.

 

This is obvious, including the ludicrous claims repeated ad nauseum about "Japan controlling most of China". China was never able to control more then 1/4 of the nation, entirely along the coast. And they were fighting 2 enemies, not only General Chiang Kai-shek, but Mao and his multiple bands of Marxist revolutionaries. As well as numerous local warlords who would bow down to anybody, as long as they could affect them, then turn around and bow to somebody else.

 

That is the reason why Japan decided to attack Pearl Harbour in December 1941 not in 1944, 150 or 1960. Same with Germany, Hitler order the invasion of Soviet Union in June 1941 was it a coincident that Japan attack the USA six months after Hitler invaded Soviet Union? No.

Chances are if the Axis Power succeed with their war plans there won't be a cold war remember Hitler's plan is the 1000 year Nazi Empire what we will have is continuous under ground resistance against Nazi Germany and Japan.

In 1944 Germany was close to developing the first atomic bomb, Germany technology was superior than the Americans and if Germany succeed in securing Soviet Union, Germany's war machine will become unstoppable they will gain air, land and sea superiority strong by 1945 also there are some Central and South American countries that are sympathetic to Germany.

If you are familiar with Japanese history you will learn that ever since Japan become a united country they have always wanted to conquer China, ancient China was consider the Pearl or the Jade Empire and who ever can or has control of China controls the world.

That is why Hitler proclaim the Nazi Germany would last 1000 years but that would not happen because part of Hitler's new world order is ethnic cleansing and it was this policy that galvanized strong resistance against the Axis power and for that the Axis was destined to fail because moral justice and goodness was not on their side.

 

Here are some basic history for you;

The Japanese were quickly able to advance down the Malayan Peninsula, forcing the Allied forces to retreat towards Singapore. The Allies lacked aircover and tanks; the Japanese had total air superiority. The sinking of HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse on December 10, 1941 led to the east coast of Malaya being exposed to Japanese landings and the elimination of British naval power in the area.

The Japanese Command reasoned that only decisive destruction of the United States' Pacific Fleet and conquest of its remote outposts would ensure that the Japanese Empire would not be overwhelmed by America's industrial might. In May 1942, failure to decisively defeat the Allies at the Battle of the Coral Sea, in spite of Japanese numerical superiority, equated to a strategic defeat for Imperial Japan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Japan

It is all about control of the sea and securing their conquered territories with their ultimate goal China cutting off all supply line to the Chinese army and hopefully convincing Gen. Chiang Kai Shek to join Japan's Asia for Asian policy in which many South East Asian natives did welcome the Japanese as liberators. Japan made the same mistake as Hitler and that was Japan's brutality against Chinese the brutality resulted in many Chinese both in mainland and overseas (Malaysia, Philippines, Indonesia, ) to take up arms and resist against Japan.

 

(My bold)

Yes, it was a coincidence that Japan attacked HI 6 months after Germany invaded the USSR. Germany didn't advise Japan of the invasion, & in fact Germany was pressing Japan to honor the agreement between the countries & attack British & Dutch bases & territory in SE Asia. Japan was horrified by Germany's non-aggression agreement with USSR - because Japan had designs on USSR territory north of Manchuria. Japan reluctantly aligned with Germany, Japan never wanted to be dragged into Germany's war in Europe.

I haven't seen anything that says Germany was close to an atomic bomb. German technology may have been superior, but their materials science wasn't up to the task, & they were diverting men, materials & effort to keeping massive armed forces in the field, especially on the Eastern Front.

Yah, moral justice & goodness weren't a big factor in Nazi Germany. I think the Axis Powers failed because of strategic overreach. The Germans sneered @ the US & the British, & most of the officer corps in Japan followed German thinking. Japan never had the resources for a long war, & their attempt to preempt the US @ HI merely infuriated the US & finally gave Prexy Roosevelt the excuse he needed to bring the US fully into the war on the Allied side.

 

What agreement? Japan had no obligation to attack Britain or the Netherlands.

Japan wanted the Soviets out of Mongolia so they would not intervene.
And Japan was not dragged in to the war in Europe.

They were years away from it but it was still a threat to the war effort.

Roosevelt was pretty concerned by the Japanese expansion and the instability that it was borne from and subsequently caused.
The oil sanctions to Japan were in no large part caused by the invasion of Vietnam which was the producer for some 50% of rubber imports into the US.
You could say that it was the tipping point for US concerns in the region.

The Pearl Harbour strike was hoped to be a decisive blow which would remove the US as a naval Pacific power which would effectively neutralise them and prevent intervention.

 

(My bold)

Nazi Germany was looking for allies to help deter US entry into WWII, to confront the USSR, & put pressure on UK. Japan fit the bill nicely. The Tripartite Pact - 09/27/1940 - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripartite_Pact - set forth the various spheres of influence that the signers hoped to establish. Japan's included SW Pacific, including Singapore & Dutch territories. The signatories promised to recognize each other's sphere of influence, & help each other politically, economically & militarily, if a member were attacked by a country not already @ war in WWII, except for the USSR. (Germany having signed a Non-aggression pact with USSR previously - which was about to be abrogated anyway.)

The Japanese strike @ HI was temporizing - Japan hoped to establish itself in its sphere, with enough military might to make war difficult for the US. While the US rebuilt, Japan would take the Philippines, Dutch, British, French territories in SW Pacific & anything else that looked valuable. The IJN was never under any illusion that the HI strike would be decisive. Yamamoto in fact was against warring on the US - he would have preferred going north from Manchuria against USSR. The strike was tactically brilliant, but strategically a blunder.

 

http://latvianhistory.wordpress.com/2011/04/18/stalins-attack-plans-on-germany-1939-1941/

Historic documents uncovered have shown that it was in fact the Soviets who planned an invasion on Germany, at the time as the Russians saw Finland and the other Baltic States ripened for Stalin's control. This is important to the historical record, it's not that Germany or Hitler made a blunder in attacking Soviet.

No, the blunder lies entirely with the Japanese as Pearl Harbor was absolutely meaningless. Only an attack would bring the U.S. into war, as just like with Syria presently, Roosevelt had no such coalition. The Japanese should have assisted Germany on the Russian Border, and thereby brought about the defeat of the USSR. Britain, at her weakened state wouldn't continue the fight. And what gains would we have for entering at that stage

WWII would have ended in Axis Victory if Japan assisted Germany(and didn't attack Pearl Harbor)

 

Here read Germany's atomic plan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nuclear_energy_project

The German nuclear energy project (German: Uranprojekt; informally known as the Uranverein; English: Uranium Society), was an attempted clandestine scientific effort led by Germany to develop and produce atomic weapons during World War II. This program started in April 1939, just months after the discovery of nuclear fission in January 1939, but ended only months later, due to the German invasion of Poland, where many notable physicists were drafted into the Wehrmacht. However, the second effort began under the administrative auspices of the Wehrmacht's Heereswaffenamt on the day World War II began (1 September 1939). The program eventually expanded into three main efforts: the Uranmaschine (nuclear reactor), uranium and heavy water production, and uranium isotope separation. Eventually it was assessed that nuclear fission would not contribute significantly to ending the war, and in January 1942, the Heereswaffenamt turned the program over to the Reich Research Council while continuing to fund the program. At this time, the program split up between nine major institutes where the directors dominated the research and set their own objectives. At that time, the number of scientists working on applied nuclear fission began to diminish, with many applying their talents to more pressing war-time demands.

Japan also sign a none aggression treaty with Russia in 1941;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Japanese_Neutrality_Pact
The Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact (日ソ中立条約 Nisso Chūritsu Jōyaku?), also known as the Japanese–Soviet Non-aggression Pact (日ソ不可侵条約 Nisso Fukashin Jōyaku?) was a pact between the Soviet Union and the Empire of Japan signed on April 13, 1941, two years after the brief Soviet–Japanese Border War (1939).

Japan did attacked Dutch, British and French colonies in South East Asia and succeeded in conquering them many of those countries embrace Japan as liberators. Thailand join Japan and Indonesians cheers as Japanese troop enter Jakarta. The success of Japan's invasion of South East Asian countries embolden them to take out the US from the Pacific and this led to the plan to destroy the US Pacific Fleet.

 

There was no way Nazi Germany could legitimately force Japan to engage in war unless it was one of defence.

Article 3 of the tripartite treaty affirms that. Which is why I asked.

They did strike Pearl Harbour to knock the US out of the pacific. It was a poor move because the US carriers were not in port and were on exercise.

If they were present then it would of been decisive. It was a gamble and it failed.

The Japanese could not of managed to fight the USSR as well. In fact they signed a neutrality agreement on April the 13th 1941.

 

(My bold)

What fooled the British & US governments was that Japan was sufficiently crazed &/or desperate as to make war on British, US, French, Dutch & anyone else who they deemed to be in their way simultaneously. Despite the intercepts of MAGIC & ULTRA, it never occurred to our military nor government that Japan would take on everybody @ once.

& of course, @ the end, the Soviets also abrogated the non-aggression pact & attacked Japan.

 

Well the fact is at the time they could take on Britain as our Pacific stations were pretty feeble in comparison and most of our ships were focused on the European theatre.

The Dutch & French fleets were simply no match against Japan.
As a side-note I find it ironic that Britain supplied Japan with quite a few vessels prior to the war of 1905 and helped develop their carrier technology during the inter war period. Although the latter was not state sanctioned.

And again the USSR had been taken out of the picture by the neutrality pact which meant that the only opposition left was the US who were very concerned by Japan.

It's fair to say that Japan was ambitious but their "craziness" had it's limits like the proposal to invade Australia which was turned down.

 

The Japanese attacked the US because of the peace agreement Hitler and Stalin signed.
Prior to that, Japan thought they were going to invade the USSR in a coordinated attack with Germany, which would crush the Soviet Union, and given the Axis a massive amount of much needed oil. When Hitler made peace with Stalin, he neglected to mention to Hirohito that he was going to back stab Stalin later, and so Japan decided it had to go another rout to increase their influence in the Pacific and get the resources they needed. Which meant pushing America out of their way. At the time, a much less daunting task than trying to solo the USSR.

If Japan had not attacked the US, and had hammered out a plan with the European Axis nations for a coordinated 2, or even 3 front assault on Russia, I am willing to bet the war would have gone completely differently.

 

Japanese Capitalist Imperialism ,was cut off from Oil supplies By US and British Imperialism in Asia .

So the Different Imperialist Powers ,or simply Capitalist Intrests of competing Nations ,exploded in what we refer to as Inter-imperialist rivalries over markets and resources.

The more things change under capitalism the more they remain the Same .

WW1 and WW2 were not accidents ,nor is the WW3 drive of US Imperialism against China in Asia .

Thanks Obama ,for the US military Base in Australia ,and the stinking servile pissants of US imperialism called the Australian Government.

 

Funny you should mention the designs of Japan on Australia,at the time the Government of Capitalists ,the ALP ,proposed a Line of defence from Adelaide to Brisbane ,hey with handing over uncontested ,2 thirds of the land mass ,who needs invaders .

Come to think of it the present bunch of shysters,is the same ,with allowing unfettered a Military Base for the US Imperialism in Darwin .

Invaded by a foreign Power without a single shot fired !

Harks back to the grovelling servitude of the Australian Capitalist Class,to the British imperialism .

Unhappy ,Native Born Asian ,others call Australian.

Don't call it Austral-asia for nothing!

 

And I call "bullschtick".

Sorry, making war plans is not the same as doing an invasion. That is something Generals are supposed to do during times of peace, draw up plans for attacking or defending against anybody who might be a threat. Not only does it help them plan for future wars, it also keeps their skills sharp for when they are needed again.

And do not believe me, look up the "Rainbow Plans" of the United States. They were made in anticipation of fighting a great many enemies, form England to Canada to a UK-Japan alliance to just about anybody else.

Green: US-Mexico
Black: Germany
Red: Great Brittan
Crimson: Canada
Scarlet: Australia
Emerald: Ireland
Orange: Japan
Red-Orange: A UK-Japan Alliance (this is the war plan that was dusted off and used for WWII)
Yellow: China
Gold: France
Indigo: Iceland
Purple: South America
Violet: Central America

Simply making up war plans or invasion plans is nothing sinister, that is what the leaders of the military are expected to do, that is why they get the stars and privileges that go with them

If they had not made up such war plans, then they were idiots and should have been shot for being totally incompetent.

OK, many things here, and I am ignoring the current political attack, not relevant to WWII.

Japan attacking the USSR would have gotten them nothing. Japan was starving for 3 major requirements: Steel, Oil and Rubber. These all came from the US or her allies, and were available in the proposed "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere" (territory that Japan thought rightfully belonged to them). None of these were available in the areas of the Soviet Union that Japan could have taken over.

And the Soviets would have had no problem letting Japan have a lot of Siberia. That is among the worst places to fight a war in the world, and it would have easily sucked Japan dry, giving nothing in return. So no, attacking the Soviets would not have won the war, it would have been guaranteed suicide for Japan - even more so then taking on the US.

Are you even aware of how far from the border anything of importance was to the Soviets?



They would have had to cross thousands of miles of permafrost and tundra before they got to anything of major importance.

 

Not crazy if you actually study the interwar period.

One of the biggest worries of this time for the US was a possible attack by a Japan-UK alliance. We had special war plans (Red-Orange_ drawn up just for such an occasion, and the two nations were actually quite close.

Their alliance did not end until Japan walked out of several treaties that restricted naval forces, and started to worry the UK that Japan might be looking at their own possessions in the region. And they were right to do so.

 

That's why I said it was ironic.

Which I have.
I said there were limits to their craziness. Just because some people believe that it's their right to rule over a region does not mean that there's not going to be some intelligent thought behind it.

 

Yes, and the last time I looked, Malaya is not China!

YOu see, this is why you consistently fail. You make a claim, and are unable to back it up. Others provide proof you are wrong, and you continue to insist you are right, even trying to reference a victory in a totally different country to try and back-up your claims.

Hey, Germany quickly rolled up France, therefore they destroyed the Soviet Union!

That is basically the same type of claim you are making, and it makes no sense.

And sorry, natives welcoming the Japanese as liberators? Sheesh, you really do have no idea what Japan was like, do you? After all of my experiences with German Apologists, this might actually be my first case of a Japanese Apologist.

And let me guess, all of those women volunteered to work as "comfort women", right?

 

(My bold)

There actually were some SE Asians who welcomed the expulsion of British, Dutch, Germans, French during WWII. & there were levies that fought with the IJA - but that was v. early on. The British et al. may have never allowed the locals into high society, but the IJA mostly used native civilians for sword & bayonet practice, raped all girls, women, nuns. Their POWs - because they expected military to fight to the death - were far too numerous, & the advancing IJA forces especially tended to eat captured rations. & so there was never enough even for the military. As captured (& thus dishonored) military, the IJA felt no duty to feed, transport, medical care, water nor shade their POWs. Captured European civilians - when they survived capture - didn't do much better. The rising young nationalist officers who helped precipitate Japan's disastrous course from the 1930s on - were angry @ the British & US. They often allowed - & sometimes ordered - their men to run riot amongst civilians & natives, & even with captured POWs.

Japan put the IJA in charge of routing all the metal, oil, rubber, food & any valuables to Japan, destroying or capturing local food. They disrupted local trade, causing starvation. They took the girls & women, executed or imprisoned ethnic Chinese outside of China for the slightest or no provocation, & soon had the entire Japan Greater Economic Co-Prosperity Sphere (the natives joked that it was actually Co-Poverty) locals up in arms against them. Japan had no civilian colonial bureaucracy to use for admin of captured goods/peoples, & so allowed the IJA - under the strictest (most militaristic) code of Bushido - to run riot over the conquered territories.

To this day, I'm sure there are whole swathes of China, Manchuria, Korea, Philippines, & so on that are not safe for Japanese on their own, day or night.

 

I am sure there were, because there are always some who would kiss up to the new rulers, no matter who they are. Some in France even celebrated when the Nazi's took over, wanting to get on the good side of their new overlords (and they were remembered once the nation was liberated by the allies).

But I am sure this was the minority, most people simply want to live their lives in peace, and would not have welcomed the change of one overlord with another, especially when the Europeans were mostly pretty benevolent, and the activities of the Japanese in China was very well known.

After all, that is why the term Quisling is still used to this day to describe such ativities.

[video=youtube;p7Rb9w2ehrQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7Rb9w2ehrQ[/video]