Just out of curiosity, why do so many care what your religious beliefs are, if any, and insist that they and only they have the truth of the issue?
I think there are several answers and contexts to that question. On one level, it has to do with the impact these things have. Religion informs us on a lot of political points, like abortion and gay marriage. Many even (in my opinion) overestimate the impact of religion (like those who argue that all Christians are in some way responsible for paedophile priests or all atheists being responsible for the Soviet union). On another level, religion and religious issues have a lot to do with one's identity. One's opinion on which retirement benefits are tax deductible can change without too much cognitive dissonance, but when one's religious views are challenged, it's challenging one's meaning of life, commitment to truth etc.. On yet another level, I think people might care less than it seems to you. I think people with different religious beliefs have subtly different understandings of some very fundamental issues, which means that, compared to some other issues, people think that their own arguments seem very reasonable and others' arguments seem very misguided. I think people start and maintain discussions not just because they care so much, but because they think that they have a particularly good insight which can be easily represented (when actually they just haven't quite understood where their actual disagreements lie). I'm sure there are more levels/interpretations/etc, I just mentioned some from the top of my head.
I would tend to agree with the third point and to a degree 2ith the second. The fact that, at least on this board, many insist that only they have a truth and try their best to change the mind of others displays, at least to me, a certain inferiority in their stand. They are not sure so they try to have all others agree with them. The question remains, if they are so sure that they are correct why do they care so much what others think? What actual difference does it make?
For myself, I tend to only care when someone forces me to on the religion front. If someone debases my lack of religion I am likely to react and if someone claims impossibility as fact I do so as well, this however goes for anything in discussion....also, this is a debate forum and we come here to chime in, I do not do so as a rule in person unless asked to.
To the others, I would add that I don't consider interpretation of reality to be a purely opinion based exercise. And, it is important to think about those interpretations and identify worse interpretations from better ones. For example, belief in astrology may not in itself be harmful, but the general disregard for reality that it entails may lead to things like vaccine denial or trump support.
Religion is a business. If people are buying their fairy tale from others then they are not supporting your business. That means that you will go out of business and lose your income stream because not enough people are buying your delusion. This will also affect countless other suppliers, such as book publishers, special clothing suppliers, architects, banks, real estate prices, and so forth. The reality is that Christianity and Islam are based on the belief that a magic Jewish zombie will return and then most of the believers will go to some type of heaven or paradise. Jews don't necessarily believe that but they have convinced billions of dummies that that is what will happen. The bottom-line is that it's all about the money. When someone brings up the issue ask him what his financial stake in it is.
While I'm sure there are people for whom that is true, I don't think it's the be-all end-all of the debate. Many actually believe they have truth, or at least some truth, compared to others. And I would argue some of them are right (but I'm not surprised to see that the other side think they are right as well). Do you disagree with my first point then? If not, that answers your last question too. It seems to me the actual differences are easily identifiable, both in politics and everyday life.
No, I don't agree with your first point, although I see that many people do. That does not make them correct or make me incorrect. For me, I just don't care about their religions, just want to be left alone with mine.
Do you not agree that people's religion has a great impact on the lives of others? Does it not make sense that people criticise the Vatican for covering up child abuse? That seems to me to be a reason for caring.
Simply the actions of individuals who claim to know what is best for everyone. I do not care what others claim to know with the absence of evidence.
Sure, but their power stems from others believing in them and being a part of the catholic church (not sure if you are catholic). If people didn't believe, the church would not have the power to do what they do, that seems to me a pretty palpable impact.
The "church" is based on old tales that have been altered over the centuries, no proof that they retain any truth. The fact that people choose to believe in them is up to the people involved. I am not one of them.As stated, I don't care what they claim to believe as they have to keep repeating it to affirm their belief. Doing so, in my opinion lessens the possibility of their veracity especially since there are s many varying claims involved.
maybe so they can have a conversation about God? Do you have conversations about God or is your walk with Him all about the quiet and nothing spoken? What do you like about God? What things about God is troubling to understand? etc.. Otherwise, the answer to the questions to 'what are your religious beliefs', etc.. could be responded with 'I don't love Him/know Him enough to give you an answer'. etc...
My stand is, as stated before, that I don't care about this god (if it even exists) and have to question those who want to insist that I pay reverence to it. Just a waste of time, IMO.
Do you acknowledge that religion has a considerable impact on politics and other aspects of daily life? Religion taught in schools, etc..
I acknowledge that religion is used as a political tool to try to influence and dictate what people think and say, thus restricting our freedoms. This, even though there is a claim in religion of freedom of choice they tend to discourage that choice.
I think I'd be in my right to go on about the practical issues, but I think the thing you pointed out is significant enough. Religion is often used as a political tool, doesn't it make sense that people try to counteract it as a political tool? Even so, I think a lot of people see more impact from religion than you do. To be fair, I agree with you that when it comes to a lot of issues, religion is more cosmetic and opportunistic than many think, but if we ask ourselves why people care, then it doesn't matter how influential religion is, it matters how influential religion seems, and religion is often put at the forefront of politics.
True, but to my mind every time religion is "put at the forefront of politics" the rights of those that disagree with that particular religion have their rights trampled and ignored. Religion should just remain as a personal matter in the background of everyday life. People who try to put it at the forefront of everyday life often cause the very problems that they complain about. Once again, IMO.
That seems like a good reason for people who oppose it to be upset with it and argue against it, and that in turn gives religious people a reason to rally around it. I mean, I agree that it should, but we live in a world in which it's not, and we have to deal with that.
First point: there is no good reason to argue pro or con on the subject. The different sides will never agree with each other and know that going in. So, once again, what is the point? Second point: Why? If the followers of a given religion or even those that disparage that religion would just mind their own business that would resolve the issue. I guess that minding ones own business is just to difficult of a concept for some to grasp.
If you are constantly being harassed by such people, I feel bad on that account. you should not have to be around those that barrage you, time and time again, after you made your point clear the first and or second time, time after time. Is there anyway you can get yourself out of that environment?
I think that ties into one of my other points. Religion and para-religious concepts are closely linked with very fundamental aspects of how people understand the world. People underestimate how deeply the disagreements go, so they reckon they can convince their opponents with some pretty straightforward arguments. I exaggerate here, I don't mean that people actually believe others will be convinced, but they might believe that the other person will talk themselves into an obvious contradiction which they will comically maintain in the face of obvious idiocy. Also, this is of course not the entire story, there are other aspects too. I discuss religion mostly because I'm interested in figuring out how others think, beyond the "nah the others are probably idiots" idea that both sides peddle. As someone pointed out, there are purely academic reasons too, the issues of the meaning of life, the basis of knowledge etc. are interesting debates to have even when it's not about religion (however, religion is not an unreasonable battling ground for those debates). Sure, but it's not obvious what it means for someone to mind their own business. Is voting based on your religion minding your own business? I would say it is for every individual, but when you have an entire country doing so, then it has stopped being so. Besides, there are times when minding ones own business is not the appropriate action. For instance, if you truly believe that abortion is murder, then it's not unreasonable to try to intervene.
Because religion is oppressive and not just to the person believing it. Arguments against gay marriage, abortion, etc. have been largely religion-based. There's also oppression of women in general in some religions more than others. It warps morality, and that warped morality affects policy that affects all of us. It also warps what's perceived as important. Instead of seeing the quality and quantity of our lives as paramount, and science as the tool to better it, people are more willing to die for a false cause thinking they're going to heaven (e.g. islamic terrorists).
The whole point of religion is to teach complete obedience and total loyalty to the Boss. When kids get religion in school they are getting a double dose of brainwashing in conformity.
