Why do we have a fat cigar smoking ignorant and arrogant pig as our treasurer?

Who do you think pays for the fuel cards? The company. It's taken into account as part of their salary, one way or another.

Of course, that it robs the rich more doesn't make it a good plan. Regardless of how progressive the tax revenue is, it's undesirable.

[hr][/hr]

I for one would like to see more tolls funding public works projects. That's about the best I can hope for. Perhaps a device like a speed camera could take your numberplate and charge it to your account with Main Roads, that way we wouldn't have to bother with toll booths and congestion.

That would also reduce congestion in peak hours - they could significantly increase traffic efficiency by incentivizing travel from 10am-4pm on our freeways.

And even better than that, the people using the service would be paying for it! What a novel idea in today's tax and spend society. Therefore, as a cyclist or train hopper, you wouldn't be paying for others' use of the road system, except due to the runoff effect in goods you buy transported by road, which again - is reasonable.

[hr][/hr]

The remaining issue would be that the roads are publicly owned, but that's much less of an issue - they're reduced from thieving monopolists to generic monopolists. So yeah, screw this fuel excise.

 

I agree with most of what you have said

 

Actually, He said the POOREST people... Also there is a big difference between poor people AND poorer households. Since you seem lost with this, I would assume that you wish to compare different facts to gain your own evidence...

I am not justifying Hockey’s comments, I am categorising them to what they should be and NOT pretending the facts as they are. The point raised is that while his comments are wrong to justify any change to fuel excise, one should object for that reason and NOT proclaim the facts are wrong because people don't really understand the truth. If you really believe that the poor spend more money and travel further than the rich, YOU are denying the reality of the HUGE gap between the rich and the poor. By pretending the poor actually have more than what they really have only allows one to justify anything THEY believe detrimentally affect the poor to suite their agenda.

YES, I talk about people being out of touch with reality with the point of objection being factual content of comment that is both logically (and if you DO want to check the ABS data) completely true, RATHER than the reality of the reason for the facts being true. So far all you seem to have is Hockey apologised so his comment is factually wrong which in itself is wrong...

If you wish to complain somebody is out of touch, at the very least you should have some idea yourself about the subject.

If he was honest??? The point I raise has NOTHING to do with the value of the comment. I am not even justifying his comments. The problem I have is that while the opposition and their many minions want to attack the Coalition they are actually demonstrating how out of touch they are themselves by attacking the TRUTH of the statement and NOT the justification (which is offensive) it was made for.

As stated “not by choice”, many times trying to deny the truth of the statement only allows people to ignore the reality of the large gap and loss of opportunity of for the poor because while they do object to these types of comments they still want to pretend the poor are not as bad off.

 

The company pays for the fuel cards, but the company also claim the fuel expenditure back in tax concessions, and who pays for these tax concessions? I would suspect any poor Australian on low paying jobs who pay tax is supporting and subsidising the wealthy people's fuel cards - wouldn't you? Or do you think just wealthy people paying tax are paying for these subsidised fuel cards? LOL

Good ideas, but the people don't own their roads or toll systems anymore, they are all contracted out and owned by foreign companies, who take the majority of the profits off-shore, and leave us with crappy pot-hole ridden roads, and over priced toll-ways.

 

I don't disagree with any of that, though we probably disagree on the solution

I'm fine with tax concessions, but I'm not fine with corporate welfare. I see the ultra rich's lower percentage rate of tax (if they avoid [not evade] tax) compared to the middle class as undesirable, but my preference is not to increase tax on the rich, it's to massively cut services and extend such cuts to the poor and middle class also.

Naturally, this involves abolishing all entitlements, public education, medicare, corporate privilege (the monetary system, limited liability, direct subsidies, beneficial regulation, etc), and most all of the Federal government. This is the part I suspect we'll disagree over

 

Well, the GOP has a fat, cigar smoking de facto party leader so why not?

For the record, "Joe Hockey" is a pretty awesome name.

 

If you go to the GOP homepage you can buy a pair of George Bush socks, now who wouldn't want a pair of those for father's day.

 

I think we can abolish ALL Governments in Australia, but still keep our humanity, and be able to care for our sick poor people.

 

Well you’re not taking care of the sick and poor now. You are demanding the government do it, so what makes you think it will change???

I must say as well, while you are complaining of the rich corporate fact cats killing Australia aren't you a proud, successful business owner??? That would make you one of the corporate fat cats your complaining about...

 

We cannot take care of our poor people, because we decided to elect corrupt politicians to manage those problems for us, and in turn, those corrupt politicians squander our money on other rubbish and funding their "junkets" instead of spending our tax money in the social areas that need it - like health care. Yes, we are proud business owners, but we also don't need to make someone else poor to succeed.

How much money is enough money for one person in one persons lifetime? $1millon; $10million; $100million; $1billion; $50billion...?

 

Still does not answer the question... If you’re not going to look after the poor and elderly NOW what is going to change if you rid Australia of government??? You’re suggesting that if you did and you were not paying all that tax to government then you would spend it to assist the poor and sick. Anybody who is honest with themselves will tell you that you’re dreaming...

Sure Australians should be standing up to rid the nation of the corruption, but when you are supporting corruption while complaining about, what do you expect. We hear all the time about the corrupt capitalist regimes and how capitalism is such a terrible thing from many people (and notably in these threads) but the truth is your willing to support that corruption (as long as it suites your sensibility). Then you want to complain about it… don’t expect anything to change until you wake up to what you have and what you are doing…

All a matter of perspective but does not detract from the fact you are considered to be one of those very same fat cat cigar smoking arrogant people you are complaining about.

Simply saying "you don't need to make someone else poor to succeed" does not make that any different. That simply states you want to try and exclude yourself from your own criticism over subjects you don't like. For example company fuel tax rebates, you claim any costs you can to recoup your tax dollar and reduce your tax bill yet you want to complain other companies should not... You try to minimise your tax bill while complaining that you should not be... Does not detract from the fact your one of the people you continue to complain about...

How much money is enough??? I should ask you that, as we poor people (well relatively poor) will never see that million mark...

 

I'm the first one to admit that there are massive "loop-holes" in the tax system that should be closed, and "loop-holes" that individulas like us, with our decent business incomes, should not be benefiting from - we simply DON'T financially need it, but for some reason they have left these loop-hole open to be exploited by people who don't financially need the additional tax revenue. Our politicians really are "The Sheriff of Nottingham" in that they steal from the poor to give to the rich.

We don't rip anyone off in our private or business lives, and why our businesses have thrived, is becuase of a family philosophy that we have followed for generations. We can be successful without taking advantage of anyone, and in fact, its more advantageous to the whole community and for society to raise people out of poor situations, rather than leave them poor and desperate. It doesn't help any society or species with one person being wealthy and rich, and the rest of the community/species being poor slaves.

Not getting into our financial situation here, but we have enough money, and are comfortable with out lifestyle and circumstance. We don't want anymore, and have no plans to expand to get more; although we could. When you look around and know you have a comfortable life; then wanting the private boat and plane, and to socialise in the "A" list is just stepping into the realm of selfishness and greed.

 

So you are exactly the type of people you complain about...

Actually you do rip people off; by exploiting the loop-holes in the tax system you reduce the amount of income the Government have to look after the poor, elderly and infirmed. So really you're saying you pay the government to look after your conscience and reducing the amount you contribute to that while demanding others to pay the full price...

Just because you don't know or see the people you are ripping off does not mean you are innocent of the very things you’re complaining about with Gina, Go figure.

So why are you not out their helping the poor and elderly in society instead of just paying somebody else to do it??? In another thread I expressed the sentiment of changing my opinion of you. That was not from that thread but the two previous posts in this thread and if you have not noticed you received support from the two biggest racist pretenders from your last. Does that tell you anything??? It tells the world a considerable amount.

But still you have not answered my question. So I will make it easier to understand

How much do you think it should cost to outsource your conscience so you can ignore the poor, elderly and infirmed???

 

When I said there are loopholes in the tax system. That didn't imply we use those loopholes to our financial advantage over others. The original business started in 1960, and expanded to a second business in 1990. Our family business employed a strong methodology that encompassed a business is owned by people, who are part of the community, and who should have strong moral and ethical responsibilities and obligations to the people within that community. Businesses are "not" inanimate objects, they are goods and services sold by thinking human beings to other thinking human beings for a price. Gina Rinehart is just a selfish, greedy fat B.I.T.C.H who wants to pay slave wages to become more wealthy using other peoples resources, instead of paying people a decent wage for their services and resources.

When importing items we cannot manufacture or source within Australia, we go to great lengths to ensure these imported items are sourced from reputable companies, and to ensure no child labour or slave labour has been involved in any of the process, and that the foreign workers conditions and wages are of a humane award standard within their country.

We were involved in our local charity organisations for decades, until we discovered that the majority of charity organisation are not what they appear to be. Lets just say we were very disturbed to discover, while the St Vincent de Paul Society CEO: Dr John Falzon received a $1million + salary, and the other State CEO's receive high six figure salaries - they have the audacity to tell people who work in their charity shops for FREE without being paid a cent, that they cannot afford to pay them. While these charity bureaucrats are living the life of luxury on $million salaries, they also use our unemployed people as slave labour packing food into boxes and weeding gardens under the pretence they have NO money to hire staff. Just think Garry17, Vinnie's pays NO tax being a charity organisation, but can afford to pay $million salaries. LOL

http://www.vinnies.org.au/page/About/Our_Structure/Executive_structure_and_our_staff/

When the organisations that are suppose to help and protect our poor, elderly and infirm are corrupt and rotten to the core, when the hell do you start?

 

Firstly, much can be learnt not only from what is said, but from what is not said and what is chosen to address.

Don’t try to suggest you do not use these loopholes. You have already tried to suggest it is the governments fault you exploit these loopholes. Fact is you have not once refuted minimising you tax foot print you simply expect the world to agree with you that it is the government’s fault. Again your attack on Gina Rinehart is simply the pot calling the kettle black. After all, YOU have decided what is reasonable and what not. I recall comments before on how you decide what type of people you would hire and would not once before and frankly it demonstrates YOU decide who is worthy and who is not, making you the same type of person as Gina.

When you say you cannot source or manufacture within Australia you are really saying “when you cannot manufacture or source products at a price you decide is reasonable” and I am sure you make NO effort to insure anything other than quality from those prices because it is obvious from what has been said you don’t really care.

Also, without any provocation or inference you decided to defend you business practices by saying you do not send people broke or rip people off. I was trying to be nice about that but when it comes unbidden, in my experience it is generally the opposite. How can we assume this??? Because it is obvious you do not care one iota about people as long as it does not affect you, as you do nothing to help people by your own admission...

So when you say, “We were involved in our local charity organisations for decades” you are just saying “you outsourced your conscience for decades until you decided that it was no longer suitable“ Because all the way through you simply try to justify you lack of empathy by blaming other. How can I say that??? Because if you were active in the charity as you infer (INVOLVED) you would be aware of the structure VERY quickly and you would either be striving to change the culture or you would be outspoken about the injustice. As I note it is only an injustice when you chose to exploit it to excuse your own actions.

Secondly, I note you never refuted the assertion that you do nothing to assist the poor, elderly or infirmed and that you minimise your tax. Instead you blame the government and charities to excuse your own stance on others who do the same.

As I see it, other than the clear blatant hypocrisy I only see two differences between you and Gina Rinehart.
1, the size of your check book which obviously has you in great envy hatred of her. You attempt justify your actions which is no difference and expect the world should just agree
2, while you are busy justifying why you do nothing, Gina is ACTIVITLY participating to assist the poor, elderly and infirmed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gina_Rinehart
Before you start complaining that she is not doing anything for Australia, neither are you. Who are you to complain who she does help when you could not be bothered yourself??? Also she is helping the people she can (as in charity anywhere, You do what you can) ever thought she might be expecting YOU to help at home??? Obviously she also gives money to Australian charities but you don’t even do that yourself as you have already explained…

Last, Just to bring this entire topic back to the OP, this post is nothing but BS you cannot substantiate. HOW can anybody believe any part of this comment when your first point to a question is to justify the assumption that you do nothing. We all can see the assumption is true. Then you justify your tax minimisation by blaming the government… These are the first things from you that show completely that you are of less decency than the people you berate. Just in the ilk of this thread, what makes YOU and YOUR comments any different than Hockey??? If we apply the same standards you impose, NOTHING. Credibility zero because all you are doing is showing your envy on anybody who is doing better than YOU. You hold everybody to a higher standard than you do yourself that is hypocrisy. When it comes to your complaints of Hockey (in this thread) obviously it is of nothing but envy and hatred as we already have shown it is ignorance as well I don’t think it is of any worth trying to set the record straight. Just as you show no value of Hockey’s comments to set the record straight …

 

It was quite an interesting read Garry17, But I would like to know "how" you arrived at all your accusations and assumptions based on nothing, except erroneous information provided by your own mind?

You have no mechanism to gage "what" tax model our businesses employs, but you rant & rave accusing our business of employing, and having the same tax concessions and loopholes that is available to that fat b.i.t.c.h Gina Rinehart, without any facts to support your accusations. You attempted to connect our business philosophy with that of Rinehart's by saying, that I previously made a comment in another topic about which people I would choose to hire, but how does choosing to hire individuals instantly connect two businesses with using the same Government approved tax loopholes and concessions?

You claim to be an intelligent individual, but you accuse a small Australian business as being able to have the same tax loopholes; concessions and advantages as a major business like Rinehart's. If your intellect is up to par, then I should not need to demonstrate the significant difference between tax loopholes "your" Government provides to our business and the tax loopholes it provides to a business like Rinehart's.

Gina with her $30billion Empire wants to pay less for human labour than she is currently paying. We are not in favour in bring in 457 foreign workers to pay them less than the Australian award wages, and prefer to hire Australian workers and pay them a FAIR wage for THEIR labour; time and resources. Are you starting to see the difference between me and Gina now, or do you need some more prompting?

Unlike Gina and her $30billion Empire, we don't toddle off around the world bribing Governments for personal loans to support our businesses, and get all the tax breaks and loopholes associated with borrowing money from Governments; or I should say the countries citizens - at supper low interests. Before you rant at me, ask yourself why your precious Governments are allowing multi-billionaires like Rinehart to borrow citizens money at super low interest rates, so she can pay her workers less money for the citizens resources...

When I say "cannot source and manufacture" items within Australia, I mean items that are not manufactured in Australia anymore, and we have NO option except to buy these products for foreign companies. Again, thank your precious Governments for destroying manufacturing in Australia, and forcing Australian businesses to buy goods and items manufactured in foreign countries, that were once manufactured here.

WOW! Rinehart is photographed at a Cambodian girls orphanage, and she instantly become "your" pin-up girl for charity work. LOL The same woman who is legally fighting her own children in court over their inheritance money. Seems to be some moral & ethical psychological conflict there LOL LOL

How much personal free time has your charity pin-up girl Gina donated to Australian charity organisations assisting Australia's poor, infirm and elderly? Oh, that's ok, in your opinion, your charity pin-up girl Gina doesn't have to give up her free time to help anyone - her donated money counts as her free time and effort - right? LOL

 

If you want kiss Gina's arse for her financial charity work, and for bribing her puppets Abbott & Hockey into legislating that 457 foreign visa workers can be imported into Australia so she can take financial advantage of them and Australian workers and Australian resources, then that is your prerogative, but don't you dare put me into the same moral and ethical business & personal category as that greedy; selfish fat b.i.t.ch, or her political puppet scum-bags that want to decrease Australian wages and turn it into another third world human labour camp.

 

Entirely based upon your words, which is why I bring the point of how you are being hypocritical when attacking Hockey and Rinehart... As stated the same...

Actually I do. As stated, YOUR words, my knowledge of the tax system of Australia and how business operate in Australia.

got proof of this??? I claim nothing as that in itself is subjective and relative, I leave that to others.

Oh, you want to pretend you are not eligible for the same tax loopholes??? Sorry, not eligible due to government policy and not the size of your check book???

Got evidence of such a claim or do you expect the world to simply believe you. As stated your previous words betray you, so credibility is not evidence.

Again you complain of the size of her check book and show the envy and hatred of things you don't even know.

Why are they not manufactured in Australia??? Is it simply because people such as you would not pay the exorbitant prices needed to continue to manufacture in Australia??? As stated, you really mean "... at a price you agree with"

Actually no she is no pinup of mine, but obviously she is doing much more than YOU so your no pinup either.

And there we see it, your hatred of another person, Simply because she has MORE than you and actually does MORE than you. As stated, WHO are you to question anything Gina Rinehart does when you do nothing yourself??? Her donated money to Australian charities count for exactly same as your donations, outsourcing her conscience which you also tell us you no longer do. So your percolated indignation at being shown for what your are and again you do not refute my "accusations and assumptions", you simply want to pretend others do not see the truth.

 

I do not put you in the same moral or ethical standards, either personally or business. If you have not noticed I place you far below her standards by your own comments. I know your type; I come across them all the time.

For example. I once heard a joke, An American walks into a dark room and trips over a coffee table. He jumps up and says “who put that F...ing thing there". An Australian walks into a dark room and trips over a coffee table. He jumps up and says “dopy bastard, should have turned the light on"

Want to complain many want to Americanise Australia, it is too late, your already there. Everything is always somebody else's fault.

It's the government's fault you do nothing to help the needy.
It's charities fault you no longer donate to charities.
It's Governments fault manufacturing has left and is leaving Australia..
Next it will be the governments fault you pissed your pants drunk, I am sure.

No NOTHING is ever your fault, is it??? I bet when you did donate to charities like St. Vincent’s you put your little plaque (or certificate) up on your wall so all your customers can see to show what a giving generous person you are... Yes the person who needs to tell everybody just what a good person you are because they simply will never know. I know the type, the "do as I say and not as I do". How do I know??? The hypocrisy and as stated before "WHAT IS NOT ADDRESSED AND WHAT IS NOT SAID"

You obviously are upset that your flaw has been pointed out, BUT it is not me who CHOSE what to address and avoid the questions. Neither of which you actually have addressed or refuted. You simply have tried subterfuge to hide yourself from the truth.

 

I always had my suspicions about your political agenda, but its been confirmed. Its interesting to know what kind of future you want for Australia and its citizens. A furture whereby you believe an Australian owned business has lower standards for wanting to employee Australians and pay them a fair salary, than a business like Rinehart's, who wants to employee foreign 457 workers, and pay them less than Australian citizens.

If you cannot see that politicians/Government for their own greedy and selfish agendas have caused the majority of Australian manufacturing to abandon Australia, and are in the process of turning Australia into a third world human labour camp, then don't have the means to convince you.

Just keep your pin-up posters of Gina and Joe on your wall; I'm sure one day your might be rewarded with a gold star in your little book.

 

Gina Rinehart & Joe Hockey; the first two people someone would instantly think of for their moral & ethical characteristics. Good luck with it all Garry17. Nothing more to see here.

 

I would have thought you would want to be above them but obviously not...

 

Nice attempt to divert the truth away from your own culpability in the hypocrisy you support. As all reflection has been on your words one must wonder, how do you come to these??? We all know, the truth has been exposed and you simply want to subvert everybody away from your lack of care for others while trying to pretend your “oh so altruistic”. Not my problem but yours….

Business??? No, just you. It is not me who decided that government is to blame for your inadequacies.

Fortunately MOST business people in Australia have far greater moral and ethics than you demonstrate here. Under a less corrupted capitalist system your business acronym would find you broke and destitute very quickly, unlike many businesses in Australia. Why??? Simply because you take from your community and blame everybody else for not giving back, by you words. Yes, government is to blame for a large extent of the corruption in Australia's capitalistic society but only to the extent that the people support that very corruption to further their own interests.

An example of which is, under true capitalism, businesses that do not contribute back to the community in the good times generally are not supported by their community in the bad times. If you have not noticed people would rather go to people who they know support their community rather than the people who pretend too... In good times they will shop anywhere, but in the bad they gravitate toward the people who helped the community. In part it is being the lucky country but generally it is because people believe in the community spirit. Once there was no better compliment to label a "community spirited" or "community minded” person. In a couple generations that now mean very little as the larger corporations who donate money to charities and advertise their "do good give back to the community" have been diluting the phrase and people such as yourself pretend you’re not the problems.

I would like to return to a day where people accept accountability for their own actions and not try simply to blame everybody else around them for their own failures. Where government is far less intrusive in people’s lives and simply represents the people. You obviously need government to blame otherwise who else is there??? YOU???

Yes, government is to blame for the greedy and selfish agendas forcing majority of Australian manufacturing to leave. They have the same amount to blame as the people who simply wanted to fleece the manufacturing sector for their own selfish greed. Also they have the same blame as people like you who simply decided you could line your own pockets by buying cheaper from overseas and selling to the Australian customer... So when you pretend to be "oh so altruistic" we know the truth.

What I want for Australia and my political agenda??? Yes, my idea is that greedy people such as yourself who rip from the community to line your own pocket should be thrown to the gutter where you belong. Rinehart may be no better than most, but she is definitely better than you as at the very least she does give to the community where you simply rip from it and want to blame everybody else for it... And that we can take from your own words, unlike you who have decided anybody who does not agree with your perspective MUST support your nemesis.

obviously I have hit a nerve...

 

If anyone believed your wacko assumptions that we just rip people off in our community, and don't give back to the community, then our businesses should NOT have survived under your philosophy of "true capitalism".

You can accuse me of anything you like without facts, and make as many wild assumptions as you like based on nothing, because a small opinion like yours will never matter. I'm secure in the knowledge that our businesses have a solid community reputation. I'm also secure in the knowledge that I have enough morals and ethics to ensure I wouldn't turn into a fat, greedy monster, and fight my own children in court over money.

 

Here is something you might find interesting. Your pin-up girl Gina, who thinks its fair to pay Africans $2 per day to work in HER slave mines. I don't have to justify to you that I am morally and ethically above your pin-ups of Gina & Joe, I know I am. Maybe you can explain to the other members who read this, why YOU are in favour of Gina, who wants to pay people $2 per day, and against someone like me who wants to pay people a fair wage? I don't have any more time to waste on your nonsense.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/worl...ay-african-miner-comments-20120906-25fpq.html