Good, but how are we to correct this? Right now, it seems entirely impossible, because we remain locked in this disgusting two party oligarchy controlled by special interests. I don't see a way out of it... legally...
Primitive isn't really a good way to describe it. Capitalism is undesirable for the majority and certainly bad for the environment, but it's also no doubt the most complex system of social organization that the world has yet seen.
I believe that socialism has certainly "happened" in the modern day - Anarchist Catalonia for instance. Since socialism is classless it is necessarily also stateless - this is the reason a "socialist nation" is a misnomer.
Now, that being said, does it really make environmentally friendly socialism impossible? I mean, you have made your point that none currently exist, but there could, am I wrong?
Truer words were never spoken concerning capitalism. I'm still with you as you're espousing many of the Conservative/Capitalist ideals. Okay, this is where you've run off track big time. First of all, Jefferson was a Republican who warned against intrusive government (as did most of the Founders)--for he was a staunch supporter of state's rights, i.e. federalism. Do you see the obvious contradiction between you saying Jefferson and other Founders would want wealthy land owners to run the government and your signature of it would be unAmerican not to be for Obama, Government=Solution? I mean, get real here, you couldn't be more contradictory if you tried. Again, you're describing Conservatism and Capitalism combined in one sentence. BTW, our Revolution was a Conservative Revolution. The Americans who protested against British encroachments or colonial liberties wanted to preserve their traditional rights; just what we Conservatives of today seek. The Founders were not revolutionaries seeking radical restructuring of society as is the want or desire of today's liberals, i.e. obamunism.
46m in food stamps 2m (?) in prison Highest percentage of population in minimum wage among western countries 500k homeless If this is 'the best country in the world" 2nd best must be worst than hell .
In reality Capitalism doesn't exist. Capitalism is nothing more than something we made up in our head to make people believe it is designed to benefit all. We'll, it's not designed that way. Neither is Communism or Socialism. The real system we need has yet to evolve. It's called the Venus Project ; http://www.thevenusproject.com/
He wasn't a Republican. they didn't exist then No. It has just never happened. Socialist societies always fail.
He started the democrat/Republican party. Read the link I provided to get an idea of Jefferson's anti federalist views, but be sure to read the last paragraph where he was against centralized government etc; or those points I had given earlier on this forum. The article did say that had he been alive today that he would most likely be a Libertarian, but his views on limited taxes and limited government puts him squarely in the Republican camp of today or the Republican/Whig camp of yesteryear. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Was_Thomas_Jefferson_democrat_or_republican
He started the democrat/Republican party. Which was the forerunner of the Democrat Party, certainly not of the republican party. Indeed it is Hamilton’s party of Northeastern bankers that became the fore-runner of today's republicans.
Liberals like President Obama are capitalists who support socialist welfare programs, it is not surprising. Capitalism has to pay for socialist welfare, I do support conservatives for this reason not for their social beliefs. Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, etc...were all wealthy capitalist men who controlled the birth of American government...They were not against government, they used it for their own interests. So it is not a contradiction, President Obama support corporations controlling government, just those who are advocates of liberal principles and will pay for welfare. It was a liberal revolution, the liberals were wealthy capitalists who did not want to live under the tyrannical conservative government of England. Conservatives are not conservatives because of capitalism, they are conservatives because of religion.
You clearly haven;t a clue then. It was the republicans that were the more liberal party in the USA until the 20's. In the last 100 years the Democrats and Republicans have switched sides.
I feel like this question is irrelevent. The Free Market is like Gravity, it is a balance of forces. It is not whether or not your "believe" in the Market, it is whether or not you adjust, or compensate, or plan, for the Market. Say you are a "Capitalist." That means you approach the Market, whether private or public, and seek out what it is you want to acquire. If that is money, then you work, buy, trade (if you are dishonest you may steal, lie, cheat). Say you are a Government. When managing your "people" and the economy, it is your consideration for the Market, or Gravity, ("market forces" "supply and demand" etc.), that determines your ability to maintain a healthy, stable, and even growing economy. That is the same with Democracy. A monarchy "represents the people." It represents that they haven't overthrown their authoritarian leader. As people, some may say in part due to the internet, are becoming more aware and capable, a Government that represents the people (a "democracy") is the smartest form a government can take to prevent being overthrown: see Jordan (I like Jordan). In the end though, all of these things are just people. How can a system be perfect when people are not? You can make a law that stealing is wrong (which we did) and yet, there is still theft. The ideal of Capitalism, a market in which people exchange in open trade, in which there can be no coersion or fraud, where people's property is protected (and thus no theft or vandilism) would function that way if people were robots. But we are people. I think were people's frustrations with either Capitalism or Socialism come in are due to that persons disappointment with people when put into positions of power. I'd like to bend the cliche: "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely," and say something like, "It is the lack of understanding of true power that misleads all individuals and societies, no matter their form. Power is not in control, power is in letting go. Most wars are caused by the lack of understanding of the principles presented in the Art of War. Poorly functioning governments are caused by a lack of understanding of the principles presented in both the Bible and the Tao Teh Ching.
" The ideal of Capitalism, a market in which people trade in open trade, in which there can be no cohersion or fraud, where people's property is protected, would function that way if people were robots". You are right. Hence people are not robots. They are also not perfect. Which is why Capitalism in theory is great, but because of mans imperfections will never work in reality. Neither will Socialism or Communism. You have to think outside the box for a system to "really" work. More important than the actual ideologies behind these systems are their impacts on the environment. None of them are eco friendly at all. I know I have mentioned in several posts about Jaque Fresco and the Venus Project, which has been totally ignored, mainly because people are scared to explore something outside their comfort zone. They choose not to deal with the reality that the ism's do not work. And whether we want to admit it or not, a new type civilization must be looked at in a serious way to move ahead for the future. By continuing to play Tootsie with the ism's, only delays the inevitable. These systems cannot sustain themselves for the long haul and be compatible with our natural environment. So at some point we will be forced to take on this experiment, or self-destruct as a civilization. So reach out beyond your comfort zone, evolve and see what Jaque Fresco has to say about the poison of money, the ism's, the environment, technology, and his Venus Project. It's time all of us get our heads out of the sand and learn.
It's even got the attention of Apple; http://news.softpedia.com/news/Appl...us-Project-with-Spaceship-Campus-238909.shtml
Well, first things first, is that the current world does "work," we are here, we are using a new technology to communicate in a way that 99% of our historical species could never have imagined. Second, Venus Project rocks, but in a way, repeats some of the some mistakes as all other "systems." The system that "really works" is nature. I think the Venus Project is a great effort at trying to give an idea about how we can both be a technological species and a species that is in balance with nature. I would suggest trying to think of the Venus Project as a map, but that you are alone on this journey, with the real world around you, and you must figure out how can you live by that concept while still living in reality. I take each basic idea of Fresco's and allow each to be seperate when needed. For instance, I grow my own food (well, most of it) and teach others to do the same. So, from the bottom up I am working to accomplish what Fresco imagined from the top down. Read my 2012 series of articles and you'll get what I mean: http://freeindependentsun.com/zen/2012-enlightenment-theory-appendix/ (follow the links at the beginning of the article).
Fantastic post! Yes, I like you am not necessarily stuck on Fresco.Just using his concept to make a point. And the point was to show how far we had gotten off course from a monetary system and the results of that system, as it relates to our natural world, and also, how it has corrupted our lives. This sort of present day evolution we created has taken us to a place that no longer is compatible with our surroundings. Your articles, in a way jump to a utopia of our evolution of which I personally feel we should be, right now, so as to preserve what we have left of this planet. I brought up the Venus Project as a way to get the people's attention in a more subtle way, instead of making them think that we need to immediately go back to living off the land as some of your articles suggest. As to your strategy, from the bottom up would certainly be my first choice as well. But for now, looking at the big picture, luring the animal out of his or her comfort zone is the big challenge. I just hope people like yourself can draw enough attention to the cause before it becomes too late for the planet. And fortunately, they're are intelligent human beings out there such as yourself working on ways to hold on to mother earth, by setting the example of growing your own food. It's pretty obvious from your post that, boring you are not. Well done!
The Venus Project is brilliant. I believe we would have a lot less of a problem growing and evolving as a species if we adopted it. I feel as though with all the walls we have built around us, society is starting to reverse the evolution process. Though I support capitalism, I don't exactly have much faith in it. Though it does allow for both fiscal and community expansion, it has the only flaw, the human element. Using the last 15 years for example, the freedoms capitalism allows is increasingly being held only for those who have the money or power to use it. Corruptions with the market like insider trading, though wrong, the banks and congress are allowed to indulge themselves with it. We have now hit the tipping point. Capitalism was used to expand and grow as a group. Now it is being used for control of the citizens and the expansion of global interests.
"Now it is being used for control of the citizens". And if we haven't figured that out by now, were living in LALA land.
Capitalism is natural. By capitalism, I mean the idea that you buy low, sell high. Capitalism resulted in the freedom that the U.S. once had. As we restrict capitalism, we restrict freedom.
Capitalism is a word. Greed is natural. It is a behavior. And Capitalism is a system being used in place of greed. And you're very confused. It's not that we restrict Capitalism. Because of greed, Capitalism has restricted us. We as a majority population, do not control Capitalism. Only the few control this system. You have to have the ability to control Capitalism to benefit the masses, for there to be real Capitalism. We are no longer in control. As a matter of fact, we never had much control in the beginning. Which means Capitalism as a system, cannot work for the long haul, as long as there is greed.
Greed cannot be eliminated. Capitalism is the harnessing of greed. No other economic system has resulted in as much personal freedom as capitalism. We do have control, if we act together. If we didn't, then large companies would never become smaller. They do, due to our actions. K-Mart and Sears are dying, because the consumers are not choosing them.
