Why I am not a Christian

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by skepticalmike, Apr 15, 2021.

  1. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    My answer to most of your questions is I don't know. Karma is possibly like anger, being that you are not punished for your anger but punished by it. Karma could be an explanation for why a person is born in misfortune while others are not. Again, I don't know. But to be sentenced to eternal hell fire for being born makes no sense either. I don't believe that the universe is about crime and punishment, but more akin to cause and effect. There is little score keeping in Newton's laws yet they work. When good manifests itself evil does also.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
  2. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    An entity who keeps track of each deed of each person who has ever lived in order to make the karmic cycle work would have to be

    everywhere (omnipresent)-to be able to see all people at all times and know their thoughts and motivations.

    all-knowing (omniscient)-in order to keep a running tally of all those billions of individuals and their actions, and to determine whether someone deserves a cosmic thumbs-up or thumbs-down for the next life;

    all powerful (omnipotent)-able to enforce its decisions;

    good-having a pure sense of morality that knows exactly what is "good" and what is "bad" in every particular situation. It also must be righteous enough to make a just judgement in assuming how the person will be spending that future life.
     
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  3. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    Or the universe operates by laws like Keplers law of planetary motion. And water finding its own level. Maybe no one keeps score. Maybe the person follows the course he sets for himself. I need no cosmic being to know right from wrong or good from bad. Chemistry needs no scorekeeper yet it follows the same law....always without deviation. There are billions of grains of sand without so much as a count. Yet every one is accounted for.
     
  4. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Now we've defined what "the universe" would have to be like in order to implement reincarnation. But it seems that rather than some impersonal "cosmic force," these requirements describe a separate, personal, all-knowing, ever-present, all-powerful, moral, just, intelligent, righteous Being. In addition, if individuals will have their actions justly judged as right or wrong, they would have to know in advance what the definitions of right and wrong are. They would also need to be able to see where they are on the karmic scale.
     
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  5. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    To share a metaphor, the totality of existence could be looked at this way: there is what is the fact of what is right now; there are perhaps infinite variations for what could be; and there is the process by which those possibilities become the "now". Again, metaphorically, the "father" could be the present, the "spirit" could be potential, and "son" could be the switch that turns on a particular potential.
    Again, please don't take these as any more than a very general way things could be looked at.
     
  6. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 16:13

    People incorrectly refer to the Holy Spirit as an "it" rather than "he." These people see the Spirit as a form of energy, not as a person. They view the admonition to "be filled with the Spirit" (Ephesians 5:18) as roughly equivalent to "May the Force be with you."

    Jehovah's Witnesses teach, for example, "The holy spirit is God's power in action, his active force. God sends out his spirit by projecting his energy to any place to accomplish his will." Compare this to the Bible, where the Holy Spirit is presented both as a person and as divine. Jesus promised in John 14:16-17, for example, "I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever-the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you." Notice how Jesus used the personal pronouns he and him. Jesus was not describing a force, but a person.
     
  7. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    You have defined what you think the universe should be and that is your opinion. Right and wrong are defined by man. And you assume that man is an eternal being when all evidence seems to be contrary to this belief. It is obvious that at least the body becomes part of the universe from where it originated after death. It seems logical to find a way to make life as bearable as possible while living this life rather than preparing for an afterlife that may or may not happen. And if there is an afterlife what would be a punishment for a life lived with compassion , charity, and a life dedicated to the relief of suffering in sentient beings? This compassionate God of the Bible would condemn a person to hell for a life well lived without the Christian belief in Christ. How is this fair or just?
     
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  8. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    They would also need to be able to see where they are on the karmic scale because after all, wouldn't a fair God let people know where they stand? It would be the height of unfairness for an individual to have worked hard for a lifetime to accumulate 7,258,206,418 good deeds-and then find out (in the next lifetime) that he was just one good deed short of the amount needed for an advancement. That would be a shame. And wouldn't be a fair God at all. Surely, a fair, righteous, just God would tell us very clearly who He is, how we can know Him, and what we can expect in eternity. He would also give us clear guidelines as to what is right and wrong, and let us know how we're doing. Unlike other religious writings, the Bible actually does that.
     
  9. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    You continue to assume eternal existence as a fact. But not only that but eternal existence as a personal enity. And you once again assume there is an eternal God. This belief is without any proof. It is no more than a feeling. A will of the wisp. To me it is obvious that suffering is a part of life no matter who you are or what you believe. A fair and righteous and just God would not create a soul that he knew would be condemned to eternal punishment even before it was born on earth. Your Christian faith has flaws...major flaws IMO.
     
  10. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    God has placed an awareness of eternity in the heart of ever man and woman. Deep down in our hearts, we all know intuitively that there is more than just this life, that there is something beyond the grave. The Bible says that we each have a body, soul, and spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23).
     
  11. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    Feelings, nothing more than feelings. I have an associate degree in Bible studies...
     
  12. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    What is the Bible? It is a compilation of 66 books written by more than 40 writers over a period of 1600 years that reads like one book by one author. The unity, harmony, and accuracy of the Bible cannot be compared with that of any other book. The Bible is, by its very existence, evidence of a Divine Hand writing through devoted men.
     
  13. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    But I will admit that there is a natural tendency to look for something outside ourselves. Especially in times of trouble. And there does seem to be a hierarchy in nature. I can see it in my pet goats. Why else would a goat scream when it gets caught in a fence? They are looking outside themselves.
     
  14. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    The Bible claims to be written by God. All other religious texts were written by men who claimed to be speaking for God. Men wrote the Bhagavad Gita; men who knew Mohammed, or knew of him, wrote the Koran long after his death; a man wrote the Book of Mormon, claiming that an angel gave him the translation of ancient golden plates; Mary Baker Eddy wrote the central book of Christian Science, Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures, first published by Eddy in 1879.

    Only the Bible claims to have been written by God speaking to men. Over 3,000 times the Bible says, "Thus saith the Lord." What other book ever written has ever said something like that so many times? In no way, shape, or form is that book claiming human authorship.

    When I discovered this fact, my question was, "Is there any evidence to prove the supernatural origin of the Bible?" I found out that there is a wealth of information-from history, archaeology, science, and prophecy-that shows the Bible is indeed the Word of God.

    Historical evidence supports the Bible. To prove something historically, you have to look at several things. One thing to consider is the original or early manuscripts of that document. Then we must ask: How close to the original is what we have today? In the case of the Bible, today we have over 24,000 ancient copies of portions of the New Testament. The next closest in all of antiquity is Homer's Illiad, of which we have 643 ancient copies.

    John Warwick Montgomery said:

    To be skeptical of the resultant text of the New Testament books is to allow all of classical antiquity to slip into obscurity, for no documents of the ancient period are as well attested bibliographically as the New Testament.
     
  15. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    And yet they had to have the Council of Trent to decide what texts make up scripture. The Buddha says to believe nothing written or said that disagrees with your own common sense. Even if Budda himself said it. It is also said that no one can save you except yourself because you yourself must walk the path. No one can walk it for you.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  16. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Among ancient writings, there is no other text that has manuscripts that come as close in time to the original writing as the Bible does. We would never dismiss any old texts of the Iliad or the Odyssey, and we shouldn't dismiss the Bible when it has much better documentation to back it up. In addition, the book must also be free of any known contradictions. If the book contradicts itself, then it isn't reliable. Dr. Gleason Archer said:

    As I have dealt with one apparent discrepancy after another and have studied the alleged contradictions between the biblical record and the evidence of linguistics, archaeology, or science, my confidence in the trustworthiness of Scripture has been repeatedly verified and strengthened.
     
  17. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    I am glad that you have such confidence in your book. I should not criticize your belief. I can only hope you follow it and never forget to try your best to live up to those standards. We just fail to agree on this subject but I have no problem with someone living a Christian life as much as possible. Good fortune to you.
     
  18. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Many people claim that there are contradictions in the Bible, but when asked to identify one, they can't. Some say they have read it cover to cover-but they only did it once, years ago.

    This tells us some people are basing their eternal destiny on what they read when they were twelve. Be sure you don't just believe what other people say without checking out the facts for yourself.

    The external evidence for the Bible is also amazing. Tacitus, a Roman historian, and Josephus, a Jewish historian, both support the historical accuracy of the Bible. For example, there were seventeen secular historians who wrote about the death of Jesus by crucifixion. This could not have been concocted by a group of men: External historical records attest to the truth of the Bible.
     
  19. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It could very well be that we each keep track of our own...who better to know us than our self.

    "For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he.” Proverbs 23:7

    "To thine own self be true"
     
  20. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    The Bible accurately describes history down to the smallest of details, and history attests to the accuracy of Scripture. For example, the rise and fall of great empires like Greece and Rome (Daniel 2:39-40) and the destruction of major cities (for instance, Tyre, Sidon; Isaiah 23) are described in the Bible.

    Tyre's demise is also recorded by other ancient historians. They tell how-after King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon failed in a thirteen-year attempt to capture the seacoast city-Alexander the Great laid siege to it for seven months and completely destroyed it and its inhabitants.
     
  21. skepticalmike

    skepticalmike Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe that there is anything beyond this life and I am not alone. There is no evidence for a soul and there is no evidence of any purpose to life. There is evidence that
    humans can't cope with the truth and therefore become religious.
     
  22. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    There could be no reincarnation without there being a God who would keep track of where all the souls go. The idea of reincarnation and no God is self contradictory. Reincarnation is also not biblical. https://bible.org/question/what-does-bible-say-about-reincarnation

     
  23. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    There are only two religions in the world and you see the same false religion manifesting itself in different forms over and over. Salvation by what we do or salvation by what Christ did for us.
     
  24. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Even if you memorized the Bible word for word...it would not accomplish what Jesus was pointing to.
    "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
     
  25. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's not really clear what you are saying with those two sentences...almost sounds like they contradict each other.
     

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