I have a problem with the term 'white nationalist'. For those who know me, I am an Australian of Italian heritage. Now, if I ever so chose, I could fall into the 'white nationalist' camp of racism and intolerance, purely because of the colour of my skin. However, I have a problem with this group of people, and their definition of 'white'. When my family came to this country, they were discriminated against by those groups that would have fallen under the 'white nationalist' banner. To be fair, this discrimination was not rampant and I will tie it into my point, but they were discriminated against as 'greasy wogs' and 'dagos'. Go back earlier than that. When I was at school (a Christian Brothers school, for those who don't know, is an Irish Catholic school founded upon the ethos of Edmund Rice), we learnt about Australian history. Looking through, there were numerous instances of discrimination against Irish Catholics by the majority British heritage Australians. I gather that, if we were to look through American history, one could easily find examples of the same thing. White on white discrimination. However, today, both these groups, as well as others that were discriminated against by other 'whites', could easily make camp in the 'white nationalist' group. Hell, even a quick look on the Stormfront frontpage can give you a list of all the countries that are considered 'white', who once in history, would have been discriminated against by other 'white' groups (and sure enough, Italians and Irish are there). So, what is my point? My point is that 'white' is not a group of people. It's definitely NOT a homogenous culture. In Australia, one would have had to have been a WASP to be considered into the 'white nationalist' camp, but now, the membership is open to groups that they formerly would have discriminated against. I could ask why, but I think the answer is simple. It's quite obvious that the white on white hate began to dissipate after the late 60s and 70s. Quite simply, a new threat began to rise up: Blacks. 'White nationalists' put their prejudice for Catholics, Italians, Irish, Orthodox, etc, etc, for the simple reason that they perceived them as a lesser concern then the rise of the black man to (God forbid) equal status to him! Current white nationalism is built upon the express hatred of blacks, Asians and Latinos, not any form of homogenous white culture. And the only reason that the groups that 'white' groups that were formerly discriminated against by 'white nationalists' are now accepted into the camp is because the perceived 'threat' of the 'white' way of life by these groups has grown substantially larger, due to the rise of Asia, South America, and the granting of rights to African Americans, Indigenous Australians and other dark-skinned groups. And (racism, intolerance and all other things aside), that is why I could never associate myself with 'white nationalism', because it is purely a pragmatic group that, I have no doubt, would still have members who would despise me (and others) for being Catholic, or Italian, or Irish, or Greek, or Russian, or Spanish, or Serb, etc, etc.
Is their alot of White hate groups in Australia? When they show up in the U.S. they get counter protested back to where ever they came from. usually the Liberal/Socialist come out in force to try to start fights with them. I am a Constitutionalist. We are often labeled a hate group. But this is when we speak of devolving power from the Federal govt. Power should be local to states in my view. Your view of racial groups is quite correct. Whites have many ethnicities in their lineage. Blacks typically stay with Blacks, however the White /black mixed child is the largest growing minority in the U.S. I read that somewhere,, anyway I see no problem with mixed races if they adhere to the Constitution of the United States.
Yes and no. There was a fair bit through our history, against Aboriginals and Irish Catholics. It was quite pronounced. During the post-war era, discrimination turned against the immigrants who came to Australia, however, it was much less pronounced by this time, but still quite apparent. Nowadays, most people look down on racism in Australia, that's not to say it doesn't exist, it does, and neither of our two major political parties could be considered or perceived as xenophobic or racist. In terms of actual white hate groups, no, there are not many of them and they hardly rank as a force in Australia anymore. I can understand that. I have no problem with the political views of constitutionalists or libertarians, even if I disagree with those views. However, in those cases, however, it is easy to see why white racists flock to them, purely because it allows them to spout their vile rhetoric under the banner of freedom of speech, etc. It is unfortunate when a political group gets hijacked like that.
So many faulty premises with your diatribe, I hardly know where to start. But I'll do my best to address some of your more pertinent obvious mistakes. Brought up as an Irish Catholic myself, I share some of your bouts with discrimination, but I have since learned to push forward past the myopic views of some, and in fact have become a protestant so as to keep pace with the other English half of my ancestry. Yeah, so what? The reason why America has so many cultural problems today is because we are no longer a 'homogenous' culture. Do you also have a problem with America having a black history month to honor, or an all-black congressional caucus of socialists, or all-black colleges, or the Black Panthers, or the NAACP or affirmative action and quotas to give a leg up to blacks and or to minorities? Seems like you favor a multicultural society that is hell bent on dividing America into many little cultures--all having their own view as to how to revise our Constitution. A White Nationalist looks to recapture our long lost traditions by honoring our founders view of a strong America, and by honoring our Constitution. If these these White Nationalists hated anything to the extreme you mentioned in the late 60s and 70s, it was hatred for socialism/communism and or modern day liberalism. I posted over on Stormfront one titled...."Does Stormfront have any liberal members", and the consensus came back as it does not or maybe 1 or 2 just to upset any current thread of discussion. So don't be confused by my title here or by calling Stormfront members...haters of any particular people, for what we hate is multiculturalism (which is anti Americanism) and all forms of liberalism, progressivism, socialism and communisim. White Nationalists don't hate these people per se, what they hate is their favoring of a multi culture America, which in turn tends to break down America's history of abiding by our Constitution, a belief in God and all of its religious underpinnings, and a need to totally break down our morality during the process. You would be wrong for assuming White Nationalists would hate you for being Catholic or Irish for instance. Afterall, I joined Stormfront when I was an Irish Catholic and they've accepted me with open arms, but I have since changed to being a Protestant while still maintaining my Irish freckles and fire-engine red hair.
Actually, I was raised Italian Catholic, I just went to an Irish Catholic school. Not that it really makes much of a difference, except maybe the Celtic Cross. No offence, but America never really has been a homogenous culture, even from its founding. You have the Puritans who arrived at Plymouth Rock. French quarters in New Orleans in Louisiana. Latinos littered throughout the South and in San Fran, and even far up north along the western coastline. That's not the mention the over 200 indigenous groups that existed before the founding of the New World in North America. That's not to forget either all the Africans that came along with the founding of the New World either. When you say that America is no longer an 'homogenous' culture, exactly what time period are you referring to? My views on your constitution and political processes aside, whilst I do have a problem with many of the things that you mentioned, what I do not have a problem with is giving a leg up to those in need, regardless of skin colour. Integration is one of my beliefs as a logical end point, because obviously we are all of equal potential. Once there is a healthy dispersal of all minorities in all layers of society, there is also a dispersal of minority voting blocks. And, throughout the history of the 'white nationalist' cause, there was also a hatred for Italians, Irish, Scottish, Greeks, Slavs, Russians, Italians, Spaniards, Orthodox Christians, Coptic Christians, Catholics, etc, etc. White on white discrimination is just as much a feature of the white nationalist cause, historically, as white on black discrimination. How the hell does a multicultural state bring down the 'abiding of the constitution, belief in God or morality?' Oh, and by the way, you do realise that Catholicism and other Christians sects would be the biggest religious denomination of African-Americans and Latinos, right? Wouldn't that help bolster the religious underpinnings? I didn't assume that all would, I said that there would be those who would. Which is why i have no belief in a 'white nationalist' culture, as the current form of 'white nationalism' is merely a pragmatic move in order to secure higher numbers (from people they formerly discriminated against) against other perceived threats to their take on the American way of life. How can I join a group whose homogenity is based upon a lie?
Im not a white nationalist or anything but one has to admit that a certain race of people seem pretty messed up. Everywhere they are the societies seem to be a real dump. Just saying.
I think the WASP's accepted the Italian immigrants because they assimilated to the national culture. The problem with Third World immigrants is that certain groups have not assimilated well. This is true in Europe and the US.
But that's the thing, we were NOT accepted. We were only accepted AFTER the rise of equal oppurtunities, Asia and Latin America, and only because the perceived threat to 'our way of life' (whatever the hell that is). And to say that Italians assimilated into the national culture, would you include the Italian take on organised crime into the bracket?
And what, you're saying that blacks, latinos and Asians are unable or unwilling to accept the founding traditions and the American constitution? In fact, tell me how they 'broke down' your American heritage. Ah, yeah, I live in South Australia, which is the only state in Australia not set up as a convict colony and was actually founded as a test state for progressive idealism. We've since slowed down, but we are still a socially progressive state that has reverse discrimination policies, and we're doing absolutely fine (socially, politically and economically). Really? I'm going to point out to you that the rhetoric on Stormfront (of which, all is freely viewable) would probably rebuke what you just said. Now, I can accept that you are a white nationalist who truly believes in the ideals of American heritage and constitutional values, but I'd also gather that you'd be a minority within the white nationalist camp as well. Liberal factions seek to destroy Christianity at every imaginable level? Really, even though the majority of America, and by extension, liberals, are Christian? Or are they just not your form of Christianity? As for the other things: banning of prayer in School - I'm a devout Catholic and I would say that Religion has no place in the public school system (those that's nothing against those who would wish to partake in individual and private prayer). Taking down the 10 Commandments in a Court System - Please tell me where in your constitution it said that all courtrooms must be adorned with the 10 commandments. As for the marxism religion diatribe, you do realise that the majority of Latinos come to America to find work to support their families back home right? They don't actually care about the politics in your country, so long as it does not affect their capacity to work and support their families. They're not out to destroy America, they're just out to help their family. Yeah, the majority of you may say that White Nationalism is all about 'adhering to the constitution', but I think that's more of a cop out. A selling point at best. Hiding behind your take on the constitutional ideals in order to spout vile rhetoric, all the while claiming it's American. Only so long as I have a counter offer that you follow through with as well. Ask yourself why there are minority gangs that have formed in the lower socio-economic areas. Open your eyes to the fact that mass-media, governments, right-wing elites, etc, have made the public school system a tired shell of its former self, and have made the life of crime seem the easier option to earn enough to survive. Better yet, ask yourself, what is the best way to integrate minorities into your so-called Christian American way?
I'm not sure I even know what a white nationalist truly is. It's a term I hear more thrown around as an insult than anything I usually hear anybody call themselves.
To put this in ACCURATE terms, since it is NO LONGER ONLY the view of White Men that "matters" legally, politically, religiously, AND in the public square, the Right can no longer call all the shots and collect power with minimal competition. I mean, really! Is there ANY way to interpret the bigoted and repressive historical legal treatment of minorities and women as something that "honored" the Constitution? Ridiculous. In true words than these code words, haters of anything and anybody NOT WHITE and NOT SUPPORTIVE OF WHITE DOMINANCE. Your dog don't hunt. Yeah, that FINE history of honoring "ALL MEN are created equal!" And who is breaking down YOUR morality? Does the idea of legal gay marriage tempt you to give it a try"? Wow! So you are ECSTATIC to be a member of a group that accepts a white guy with red hair, freckles DESPITE being Irish and catholic! Welcomed with OPEN ARMS, in fact! Sounds positively DAHLINNGG! Whatever do you wear to the Spring Gala Ball? I heard fuschia is IN this year!
You have no idea what you're talking about. The white nationalists want to end affirmative action. They are anti-racist.
Actually, the idea behind Affirmative Action (of which, white women are actually the biggest benefactors) was to get minority groups and women into the workforce and onto equal footing. Eventually, it would have made itself redundant as all the groups intergrated and coalesced into a society where oppurtunity truly is equal for everyone.
Well, I guess everyone as their own definition for everything. For the moment, I'm only really talking about the image of white nationalism from what I perceive on Stormfront.
Personally, I don't find white separatists (a sub set of "White Nationalism") offensive, mainly because I can see a non-bigoted rational for keeping races separate. Most of these people happen to be bigots to begin with, and that's where I draw the line. And then there's that whole "send them back to Africa" idea that's so prevalent in them.
Very good point. From the liberal perspective its a safe method to attack the power structure in America. But when Muslim extremist co-op blacks its their roots. Blacks choose to ignore the fact that Islam was brought to Africa by the sword, much like Christianity was brought to America indians.
