Why is education so poor?

Report: Half of Detroiters Can't Read or Write

Out of 200,000 Michigan Public School Teachers----9 were Fired last year

Detriot School Board President Cant Read or Write


Any other silly questions?

Democrats believe the best education is an assembly line in a Union Factory.....but as reality has taught us.......Kids are not Cars.

If it wasnt for the Democrat's monopoly on education and brute force......

.......its doubtful any parent would willingly pick the Subprime Union Public Education to Nowhere for their chidlren. Unfortunately for millions of American chidlren......those monopolies still exist.
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That's an odd use of y'all there. I'm not entirely sure why, it just looks out of place. Perhaps it is just the way the sentence is structured. It really ought to be in the third person, not the second.

 

Yes they do.

 

In my perspective it is entirely correct, Someone.

we <=> you (y'all)
wij <=> jullie
nous <=> vous
nosotros <=> vosotros

etc.

 

SOURCE?!

Seriously, or are you joking?

I'm terribly interested in this -- the entire Michigan area.

If you have any information about state-issued IDs -- please redirect it to me. It would be very much appreciated for undisclosed reasons...

Thanks on advance,

Take care,

Kind regards,

Jan

(BTW -- what a load of wankers! Superintendents earning around $300.000/year! The US President earns around $360.000 or something if I'm not mistaken!)

 

Mike,, English is a very difficult language to learn, by learning I mean being fluent in all English language skills,,,,speaking, listening, reading and writing.

English has a few idiosyncrasies which are difficult to master. One in particular are articles, especially difficult for Asians, as Asian languages don't have articles. Also, English isn't phonetic.

I teach ESL part time in the evenings. English can be difficult to teach and very difficult to learn. Many of my students are fluent in a number of Asian languages,, Lao, Thai, Vientnamese, Chinese, Japanese etc,, but English language just has them stumped.

 

I don't think paying more attention to students who don't have self-discipline is going to help. We spend way too much time on kids who simply just don't care. Like you said, sometimes it just takes time or sometimes they will never develop self-discipline or maturity. Others are not smart enough to grasp the concepts being taught. You can teach the same thing over and over again and they will not remember it. We spend too much time on these students too. Maybe they are like Edison or Einstein and they are not good at school, but they turn out to be geniuses. I doubt paying more attention to Einstein or Edison in school was going to help them. It would have probably been better for them to think on their own instead. We should not slow the pace of learning to the low end. The pace of learning should be to those who are at the top of the class. I am the the high end and I spend about half of my time staring at a wall because I already know what is being taught. Is it fair to me that the pace of learning is geared toward the low end? I could have easily graduated in 9 years if given the chance, and I could be learning things that are much more useful. Most people would agree that people at the top of the class will usually be more useful to society than the bottom half. If a poor student does end up like you say you did and makes something of their lives, then great. If they never grow up, that's fine too. At least they didn't waste the time of people who actually wanted to learn something, and hopefully they will have to pay the consequences instead of receiving handouts.

 

Is that only for primary languages or is that counting people who know a second language. I think English would be the most common second language, so it may actually be used by more people than Spanish. Most countries that speak Spanish aren't as important as countries who speak English either. I don't think using Chinese as a world language is realistic. English makes the most sense to me. Has there ever been any studies done that shows what the most effective lanuage is? What is the benefit of people speaking more than 1 language? Don't give me this culture bull(*)(*)(*)(*). Culture can and should be changed, including the U.S.

 

Why would I want to speak or write in a more eloquent manner? That doesn't provide any benefit to society. Why would I want to understand more complex literature? It is a waste of time, and most of it is bull(*)(*)(*)(*). I really don't care that much about Spanish culture. They like soccer, bullfights, nude beaches, art, Flamenco, gold, and Catholics. What more do I need to know? Why am I required to learn about Spanish culture to go to a university? I took 2 years of Spanish classes. I never paid attention in English classes and got a 36 on the English section of the ACT. Why would I need to know any more English than that?

 

English language is the third most used language worldwide after Mandarin and Spanish.

But, English is also the common world language for commerce and science. This alone allows English to grow at a rapid rate as opposed to Spanish. Go to a non-English speaking country and most people who desire to learn a foreign language will choose English. Over 40 years ago it was French.

To add,, English language education is a huge industry worldwide.

 

Y'all isn't really a correct pronoun. Its usage is somewhat less than clear at times. It's roughly analogous to "you all", but not quite. I'm just saying that the sentence seemed a bit oddly constructed. Y'all not very commonly used in the same clause as another second person pronoun, which I think is part of why it seems strange. Like I said, I couldn't really put my finger on exactly why, it just 'looks' odd. "We took that thing over to y'all." It just doesn't feel right.

 

Poor kids mainly, I think. The fullest solutions for them aren't only in the schools.

Seriously, I wonder how poorer White kids are affected by that too. Has anyone seen a good study on poverty as related to education?

Time for some Googling.

 

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I know that technically it isn't correct. It is just my little protest towards the absurdiness of the English language. Every other language has a plural form of "you".

Anyways,... it looks perfectly naturally to me, Someone!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y'all

Do you speak any foreign language, Someone?

When I'm elected Governor of Michigan or Mayor of Detroit (dream big!) I'll do everything in my power for students enrolled in public education to be schooled in all the 4 major languages of the Americas: English, French, Spanish and Portuguese. And, out of free choice, an additional on top (choice out of: German, Russian or Chinese). If a country like Belgium can do this with around 30% less funding/student, than the USA must certainly can. And we have 6 weeks of holiday spread across the school year and two months of holiday in summer...

 

BTW -- I received a job "offer" (well, not exactly -- it was just posted on intranet, so I still need to go through the procedure, but if I really wanted I could let my Father place a call... I never ask him anything, so if I would ask him that one thing... ) in Louisiana. You can't get me in with a stick, chainsaw or tank! Also a place in Texas (Dallas, I believe -- it was at the Ocean). Might consider, but I've got my eyes set on the MidWest!

 

It might if that attention was focused on helping them see a reason for self-discipline and helping them develop it.

To be fair, a lot of those people do develop it eventually, but not until well after anyone stopped paying attention. Like when they "graduated" with a barely adequate GPA and basically fall off the radar. The brain doesn't really stop developing until the mid 20s. People often change a lot between 18 and 25.

I'm not sure I really believe that. People have pretty much the same 'hardware' when it comes to brains. It's how they use it that differs. A lot of supposedly stupid people just seem to be missing certain methods and approaches to problem solving. That can be really frustrating not to understand what someone is trying to teach you, until you see it presented in some other, more personally comprehensible manner. Not everyone learns from the same metaphors or by the same methods. It doesn't make them incapable of learning, they just need to find a different way to approach the subject.

To be sure repeatedly shoving the same subject material and explanations in front of someone who didn't get it the first or second time is usually not going to work the third or fourth. That doesn't mean the person can never understand the subject, just that maybe they need to find a different way to view the problem.

The best example I can come up with personally is from college. A lot of the people in my computer science courses (I did take that as a minor because it was easy) didn't understand the problems being presented until they asked me to sit down with them and try to explain it. I explained it differently than the professor did, and sometimes people who didn't understand a topic the professor's way did understand my way. That's not to say that one approach is better than the other; but merely an observation that different people learn differently. And institutional education--especially resource stressed and overcrowded institutions like most public schools--does a very poor job of recognizing these differences.

I'm almost tempted to suggest that perhaps the primary reason why the US system fails and other systems with institutional learning don't fail as badly lies in the support systems available outside the classroom--student study groups and the like. That's really the best way that alternative viewpoints on subjects and problems can be sought, and I never saw many of my fellow students (except the very 'nerdy' ones) bother with it unless they felt some pressure from an upcoming test.

A genius without the ability to relate his findings to others is (*)(*)(*)(*)ed near useless. Education is a way of formalizing the spread of ideas. This was important in Einstein's case, though less so in Edison's, because he was primarily involved in the invention of products, not in scientific theory.

I fundamentally question the assumption that there should be any sort of "pace" set for the education of any group of 20 or more people. I think that it is no more appropriate to set a pace to match the "top of the class" than it is to set one to match the "bottom of the class." In practice, there are only three broad types of education; self-education, individual instruction, and small group teaching. Getting up in front of a large group (30 people, 300 people--groups of substantial size) and giving a lecture is basically only addressing self-education. That's fine for the folks with the self-discipline and the interest to teach themselves, because it shows them where they need to start, and what they ought to focus on. That's not at all acceptable for the people who learn best individually, or in small groups.

Public institutional education does very little to engage those last two modes of education. Private schools tend to keep class sizes smaller (because they are more exclusive), which enables them to spend more effort engaging students individually and in small groups. They would provide just as poor an education if they were forced to teach as many students as the public educational institutions handle--there is no inherent virtue in private organization that magically solves educational problems. It's just a matter of private schools being more exclusive.

Learning how to pay attention when someone is repeating themselves or talking about things that are not interesting is itself a valuable skill. In my experience, this is an essential basic skill in understanding how to be an effective listener. Which is itself incredibly important in everyday life. I would also ask you why you're in such a rush; do you think the world is going to pass you by?

A big part of maturity and self-discipline is knowing when to slow down and enjoy the ride.

Society can go hang itself. It's the individual that's more important. Life involves all sorts of people, some productive, others not, and it's hard to tell who that's going to be. Certainly not so as early as high school. I certainly don't think the person who fixes my car when it's broken is any less valuable than the person who designed the car. I don't think that mechanic ought to be disrespected or declared useless for his choice to be a mechanic.

My personal anecdote was more about the nature of "poor students;" many of whom aren't innately incapable, but merely lacking the right mental state for academics at the time when we're expecting people to make those choices.

Opportunity--real, genuine opportunity, not just theoretical opportunity--requires handouts sometimes. People make mistakes, squander resources, lose sight of goals, and find themselves in bad places emotionally. As often as not, that forces them to realize some truths about themselves and the world. If we--other people around them--aren't willing to offer a hand back up, then we can't really expect anything but social failure.

 

English does have a proper second person plural; "you all". Y'all is a contraction of that.

Just some observations from a southerner. It may be "correct" from the dictionary standpoint, it's just not used like that in my experience.

Not really. Oddly enough, I'm pretty good with Spanish grammar, but not Spanish vocabulary. It mainly comes from a lack of opportunity to practice. I took the courses, but I basically forgot a lot of the vocabulary because I have no reason to use it.

You will enjoy your one term. Pushing foreign languages in the US is a good way to get kicked out of office. The problem with foreign languages in the US is that there just isn't much of an opportunity for Americans to make use of them. Most Americans don't travel outside their state (a very significant portion will never go further than 100 miles from home--perhaps as much as twenty percent depending on the study), let alone outside the country. Spanish is about the only "foreign" language (and honestly it's not really foreign anymore) most Americans are liable to pick up, and then only in areas where they actually have an opportunity to practice.

It's a matter of utility, not funding. Europeans encounter many more foreign languages than most Americans do. Remember; it's not just a simple train ride or short plane ride to get to a region that primarily speaks a language other than Spanish or English for most Americans. It's not like there's a huge flow of Americans traveling to Quebec.

Yeah, lots of Americans take foreign language classes in school, it just doesn't stick because there's no real reason or opportunity to practice other than class. Except for Spanish, which as mentioned isn't really a foreign language in the US.

 

If we address poverty more effectively, a lot more problems can (likely) be resolved across-the-board.

I'm certain that wealthier families will always have the will/way to have their children attend a private school; but I think most studies and outcomes will tend to show that a 'private' education for the masses of children represented within the U.S. population, is not particularly feasible. I understand that is debatable within the eyes of some.

Even so, it makes sense that putting more effort into resolving poverty overall COMBINED WITH continued improvements in the efficacy and efficiency of our nation's educational systems, will likely lead to significantly improved outcomes.

In essence, the overall solution to improving the educational levels in America, will not be achieved via some single-pronged approach (such as improving education systems alone), but a more holistic commitment toward society itself by both citizens AND government.

That's what I think.

 

At certain times, yes it is good to give a hand, but we use it too much right now.

 

Well the thing with Subprime Union Public Education........there are no solutions in the schools. Mainly because it has nothing to do with the children or their education.....and everything to do with money and union slobbery.

I have seen many studies.......and it seems all our problems share one glaring commonality.....

The Poorest American Cities of 2008 (1-30)

1. Detroit, 33.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 52 years
2. Cleveland, 30.5% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 20 years
3. Buffalo, 30.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 43 years
4. Newark, 26.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 102 years
5. Miami, 25.6% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 52 years
6. Fresno, 25.5% in poverty--Republican Mayor for the last 13 years
7. Cincinnati, 25.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 29 years
8. Toledo, 24.7% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 20 years
9. El Paso, 24.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 120 years
10. Philadelphia, 24.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 57 years
11. Milwaukee, 23.4% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 49 years
12. Memphis, 23.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 133 years
13. St. Louis, 22.9% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 60 years
14. Dallas, 22.6% in poverty--Republican Mayor for the last 2 years
14 New Orleans,22.6% in poverty-Democrat Mayor for the last 141 years
16. Atlanta, 22.4% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 130 years
17. Stockton, Calif., 21.6% in poverty--No info available--probably Libs
18. Minneapolis, 21.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 35 years
19. Pittsburgh, 21.2% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 21 years
20. Tucson, 20.9% in poverty--No info available--probably Libs
21. Chicago, 20.6% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 78 years
22. Columbus,Ohio 20.1% in poverty-Democrat Mayor for the last 9 years
23. Long Beach, Calif., 19.8% in poverty--No info available--probably Libs
24. Houston, 19.5% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 88 years
25 Los Angeles,19.4% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for "the last 8 years"
26. Baltimore, 19.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 42 years
27 San Antonio,19.2% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 38 years
28. Phoenix, 18.9% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 5 years
29. Boston, 18.7% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 79 years
30. Denver, 18.4% in poverty----Democrat Mayor for the last 46 years

When you promote an ideology that rewards failure and punishes success......you are bound to get Democrat cities flourishing in Poverty......you are destined to have Democrat cities with a 50% illiterate population......and Democrat School Board PRESIDENTS that cant read or write.......

........this is Liberalism realized.
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You listed urban places, but poverty exists in significantly more places in America. It affects ALL races and cultures.

I disagree with your very biased conclusion. And you've offered no real solutions to the problem.

 

In the Obama Economy, Poverty is widespread.....this is true......everywhere Democrats are empowered...Poverty is soon to follow.

The solution is obvious........private education delivers a superior education 100% of the time. So lets give American Parents the free choice on where to send their Children/Tax dollars to school at.

Remove government from the classroom.......and the IQs would soar.
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You are going nowhere with your distorted spinning of reality. Try harder.

 

Actually, our education system should be more like that in Japan and South Korea.

Motivation (carrot AND stick) for all involved: students, teachers, parents

These countries do not have the "child-centric" culture the US educational system has.

"Mainstreaming" specia-needs students was well-meaning but has proven VERY counter-productive. Scrap it.

Increased discipline is needed. I defer to the Jesuits on that subject. The Jesuits think the USMC and French Foreign Legion are slack on discipline.

I don't see any way out but to go to a 100% voucher system. The money follows the kids. Schools evolve to cater to a subset of the kids and the money is paid if performance is demonstrated. Likewise the best schools will test rigorously for admission. Just like in Japan.

 

If the nation is to succeed, then we've got to get a better handle on "poverty", which affects a very large portion of the overall American population.

Sweeping that factor under the rug, only makes band-aid solutions look better.

 

5 reasons......

1; Tenure........Tenure means that someone can't be fired.......There are countless scumbag, incompetent teachers who can't, or won't do their job, who still have them.......

2; No Child Left Behind........This act is the most idiotic thing I've ever seen. Under this act, a school whose students get low Standardized test scores gets it's funding cut. This is stupid for many reasons, the biggest of which are the fact that these schools then are unable to teach their students properly, and that they tend to focus completely on approving test taking and not on actual education.......There have even been cases of schools placing non special needs students in special needs classes in order to get them out of tests.

3; Cuts to education funds..........The republican party loves their military spending so much thst they are always willing to cut education to save it....Education is one of the most important things for keeping nation thriving.....We should never cut education except as a last resort.

4; Less qualified teachers............Teachers' pay is so low, and their benefits suck so much, that most of the more intelligent, better qualified college students don't even consider it an option for a career. We need to raise pay, and give better benefits to attract better teachers.

5; Uncaring students.............There are always several students in a school who do not care about their education and only cause distractions and make it harder for REAL students to work and learn......These students should be permanently expelled and barred from public schools.....period. ........If their parents want them to go to school, they can pay the extra money and send them to private schools.