Why the Confederate flag still flies in South Carolina

Not when the flag and building are owned by the state. There's nothing that you said that would restrict it's use in any way. Not up to you.

 

Because it was being occupied by a foreign military after being repeatedly told to vacate it.

What harm does it cause you? In South Carolina it flies at a memorial to our Southern ancestors who defend their state and died doing so. And the died with honor. That you have this myopic view of the South and the heritage of the South and the symbols of the South is not the problem of the South.

The Stars and Stripes represented legal slavery for almost 100 years, it stood over legal slavery AFTER the Civil War ended. Let's get rid of that flag then.

 

Bull... argument. The plank does not delineate between state and territory. It states ALL TERRITORY in the United States. It goes on to state ANY TERRITORY in the United States. Your argument is specious. The terms speak for themselves. ALL TERRITORY in the U.S. and ANY TERRITORY in the U.S. There is no denying it. If they wanted it to mean something else they would have said ALL NEW TERRITORY or ALL TERRITORY not a state but they didn't. Again your argument is specious.

To your argument about trade with other countries there are two glaring problems with your argument...first and foremost the Constitution gives the authority to the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT to regulate trade between the states and internationally. The fact the Federal Government wanted to exercise control over trade is well with their appointed Constitutional authority. Second, what specific trade are speaking of? Slave trade? The Constitution gives clear authority to the Federal Government to regulate this trade after 1808. If you are referring to any other trade that goes outside of the country or outside of an individual state then the Federal Government has clear authority to regulate said trade.

Again you are incorrect in your assumption that there was no plank for abolition of slavery.

So now you are stating there was no Federal usurpation of the Constitution just the growing concern that there would be? Sounds like you coming around to me. That is exactly the point I am making. The states seceded not because of some Constitutional usurpation but because of some perceived usurpation that MAY occur because a Republican government was elected in 1860.

As far as putting the onus back on the states for deciding I understand that...which actually strengthens my argument that there was no FEDERAL violation of property rights or FEDERAL usurpation of the Constitution PRIOR to secession in regards to slavery or the southern states rights.

The fact that you do not know the difference between when someone states ANY TERRITORY of the United States and you assume that only means non-state territories is ridiculous. By your definition then Al Qaeda did not strike U.S. Territory they only struck the state of New York. This is of course laughable.

 

Uncouple that flag from the government, that's all I'm asking. War memorials can be ok, but that flag flying in Charleston doesn't appear to be about a war memorial. It's prominence in front of the statehouse is concerning.

I don't understand the need to "honor" the confederate generals and/or leaders. If they had their way, we would be dominated by Europe and/or other world powers. The founding fathers mentioned a bit about foreign powers, and the danger they represented. The international system has been dominated by great powers competing for, or trying to stabilize a balance of power for some 500 years now. If the South was successful, the US wouldn't have become the power that it is today. Why do you think Britain was happy to see the Civil War (I've seen some of their propaganda posted in this thread)? They wanted the US to break apart so as to maintain their waning power position.

The founding fathers realized early that this continent would forever be a battleground for European powers (and eventually Russia which they couldn't have foreseen then) if it wasn't united. That is why the first phrase of the Constitution is about forming a "more perfect union", IMO. Imagine if, in 1941, when Hitler was poised to conquer Europe, if the US was just a collection of different states and territories, and maybe a few blocks of states. That's what would of happened in if the South won. We should honor the fact that they almost succeeded? Even putting aside the atrocities of slavery, that outcome would have been unacceptable.

Also, I'm not calling Daish what they want to be called any more so than I would call a white separatist terrorist organization in the South, the Christian State.

 

I have to say, I'm impressed with Graham and Hailey for once. Never thought that would happen.

 

What would you have the people in Mississippi change their flag to?

 

It's definitely crazy. I thought they'd defend it to their graves, but this incident makes them look so bad. It confirms to them what every non-racist has been saying for a century. That the supporters of the flag view it as a symbol of white supremacy and racism. There is no pride in that. The fact it's actually flown on any public land is sickening.

 

Imagine if Lincoln saw the Confederate flag still flying around today. That's sick. Probably the most anti-American symbol in history. They killed over 300,000 Americans in order to take over the country and yet they are still flying it around as something to be prideful in? That's sick.

 

The sweet part is that you'll have to learn to live with it, 'cause it ain't going anywhere. Booyah.

 

Oh, it's coming down. You can proudly announce your racism and bigotry as a private citizen all you want. But any flag on public property will come down. Booyah.

 

Sorry that you must have flunked US history or had REALLY bad teachers. But the TERRITORIES of the United States were land that belonged to the US Government, the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT and sole jurisdiction in those TERRITORIES. TERRITORIES petitioned to become STATES. The STATES were were NOT territories of the federal government, they were separate STATES.

"Territories of the United States are a type of political division that is directly overseen by the United States federal government, in contrast to the states, which share sovereignty with the federal government."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_States

You just proved my point as to why the Confederate states wanted out, BECAUSE of the control the Federal Government was exercising.

I posted the four mentions of slavery on the Republican Platform of 1860, there is NO call for the abolition of slavery as was claimed. Else quote it.

It was that the other northern states were violating the rights of those property owners and the growing fear, with justification, that the federal government would side with those states.

- - - Updated - - -

If he saw a Confederate battle flag flying over a memorial to the sons of those states who gave their life for their cause. I think he would bow his head in respect.

 

Meanwhile...

Hillary Clinton's Confederacy Hypocrisy

 

Then why did Lincoln readmit the Southern States back into the Union? The very REASON for the war is Northern desire to keep the Southern territories. A wise move, since neither the North or the South can completely survive on their own, Nat Turner's optimism not withstanding.

 

You seem not to know what a battle flag is. I give you credit getting a couple of photos of Marines correct, only two of the twelve photos were of Marines the other ten were American soldiers.

First they burned their draft cards then the American flag. Then they went after the battle flag of the Confederacy. What will the hate mongering left go after next ? The Bonnie Blue Flag ?

 

Ahh yes, the Southern apolgist, still stuck in the 1860s. Fort Sumter was attacked by a Confederate militia in April, 1861.
To be precise; on April 12, 1861, General P.G.T. Beauregard, in command of the Confederate forces around Charleston Harbor, opened fire on the Union garrison holding Fort Sumter. At 2:30pm on April 13, Major Robert Anderson, garrison commander, surrendered the fort and was evacuated the next day.

I don't think the question is about what harm is caused by the Confederate flag, more so as who does it offend.

I'm a former commissioned officer of the U.S. military...I regard the Confederate battleflag as no different than any other flag representative of the foes of the U.S. military. It is no different than the black and white flag of ISIL, the Rising Sun of Imperial Japan or the Swastika of the Third Reich. My legacy as a former U.S. commissioned military officer involves those who took up arms to defeat the very entity represented by the stars and bars...

Matthew 6:24
"No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other;
or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You can't serve both."

I served one flag, and it was not the Confederacy's.

Anyway, more to the point, the Confederate flag flying on the courthouse steps of Charleston does not cause me any harm, I just find it offensive. Perhaps for a different reason than those who see it as a representative of institutionalized slavery...I view it as the flag of the enemy...albeit, a former enemy. I recognize it's historical value, but as a point of pride I find to be offensive.

Would you not find someone flying the flag of the Third Reich and taking pride in the deaths and injuries caused to American servicemen offensive? I find it offensive the Southern efficacy to prideful boasting of the taking of lives of Union troops...for if fate had dealth me a different hand I would be fighting amongst.

 

Sharpton certainly that would be a racist remark. And I'm no fan or Sharpton's by any stretch. But that comment was 20 yrs ago.

Then what does the confederate flag symbolize?

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly what I said.

 

Yep, we are stuck with each other, unless we wanted to be stuck with the Germans or Russians. The Union is the key to our strength. The Confederate leaders almost sapped that strength, to the point that the 20th century may have been a unipolar world similar to today's, except that the USSR would have been the sole superpower.

 

The U.S. fought a war to keep the Confederacy from taking that land.




​

 

In SC the flag IS flying at a memorial that is on the grounds of the state house.

I'm sure you don't.

You mean the ones who owned slaves. Perhaps we should erase the name Washington off the Washington monument, tear down the Jefferson memorial.

Utter conjecture and nothing to do with this issue.

It honors those who died for their states.

I have no idea what you are talking about nor what it has to do with the South honoring it's fallen hero's.

 

SEVEN states use some form of the Confederate flag on their state flags to commemorate the war. So I guess seven states are your enemy?

 

Was it meant as a divine right for slavery?
If not, then NO. If yes, then I have a problem with it.

 

But, doesn't that just mean, mostly white men? All doesn't really mean all.

 

Got a good reason it should stay? And I'm assuming booyah is code word for, "the south shall rise again", immature bs too right?

 

It was no longer their land, the island was in the protected waters of South Carolina and they were ordered to vacate it else be fired upon.

 

Roof was a terrorist; that's what I'm talking about. He is part of a group of people in this country who either think a race war is inevitable, or who want to incite it. I've met many of these people throughout my life. Almost all fly that flag. And if people think that Roof is a very rare outlier in his ideology, they are wrong. When I was a kid in the 1990's, about once every 2-4 weeks during the spring and summer, there would be black vs white fights in a field a few blocks from the school. Sometimes there would be 2 or 3 dozen whites vs 2 or 3 dozen blacks. That was when I was in middle school. Imagine what those adults are doing. This isn't isolated, and this ideology needs to be confronted. The flag should be removed from any state or federal government grounds. The way it should be removed is important. I am not down for the feds dictating it. But nothing says I can't try to convince the people of South Carolina to remove it.