World Wide Auto Sales for 2022

Competition breaks companies that's why it's good.

They rebuild and retool and provide something better.

 

I agree with some of what you say.

For example, your price per month, reliability and utility are strong bets for being serious purchase criteria. And, the utility is probably why the F-series pickup leads in sales so frequently.

I really don't know how pickup buyers use gas price history in their purchase decision. For instance, maybe it causes them to buy an F-150 instead of an f-450 or decide not to pop for the "super duty" version.

I doubt it means they will buy a Tesla instead.

Also, analysts say Americans own their vehicles for an average of 8 years. So, maybe high gas prices cuts that short, but I don't really know how to dial that in.

I'm really looking forward to see how the F-150 lightening works out.

Then we can start seeing truck v. truck.

 

What Ford, Stellantis, Toyota, VW face is serious.

Their debt is huge. On their books, their assets are factories that Stellantis (for example) doesn't believe can become useful.

Their direction is not clear, even by their own statements. Their need for huge investment is really not optional. Their sales are not growing, especially in some places, such as Europe that appear more oriented to EVs than is the USA.

Tesla is in position to cut the price of their cars, as their manufacturing and direct sales help them have a huge lead in profit per car. They have no cars waiting on lots or moved to used car lots. Analysts say they can probably build 2 million cars in 2023 and sell every one of them at significant profit.

BYD (China) has great cars and is planning to expand into as many as 30 countries this year, including EU.

The manufacturers in that first line above are WAY behind.

It will be important to see what happens this next year.

 

yes still want this was doing what I call kmarting.

Spending loads of money buying up brands to the point where they just go extinct.

It's okay it happens all the time businesses fail and the void created by it in the market allows for new businesses to flourish.

I remember back when Chrysler in Fiat merged and I thought to myself two wrongs don't make a right.

These have both been notoriously crappy cars for decades. And that was the latest acquisition by stalantis they probably shouldn't have done that.

Chrysler is the car brand that is just too crappy to die it's been rescued over and over and over it's just a bankruptcy magnet and it's because they make garbage. It has since at least as far as I know the 60s.

It's not a corpse it's just a Bones the corpse already rotted away.

well it really isn't a huge price cut it's actually just returning to prepandemic price and this is good it will also crush all of its competitors.

This is a smart move by Tesla and other car companies should follow suit they aren't going to because they're greedy selfish stingy *******s and they get what they deserve.

But I really think they only entered the EV market in order to crush Tesla.

we will have to wait and see what China makes and how well they do in the European car market.

Europeans don't seem to value the same thing Americans and Canadians do with cars so that will probably be an easier market to get into.

After all Europeans have been empowering Alfa Romeo's and Fiats for decades and people here in the states stopped buying them after 2 years of them returning here.

I'm not surprised as Italian cars are made out of blue feathers and duct tape stuck together they are trash.

the free market should be their crucible if they can't sell their trash it's because they're making it too cheaply they're charging too much money for it or the stuff they made previously it's better it's just the same as the other two.

American cars have been able to do this for so long because there's enough people that want to buy American made. I love these people because I take them to the front of their PT cruiser or their Dodge caravan and lift up the hood and point out where it says Mitsubishi on the engine.

It's one thing to buy a Japanese car like a Honda or a Toyota but to buy one of the worst Japanese cars like a Mitsubishi or as I refer to them oil stains is another.

Once people realize there's no such thing as an american-made car that'll abandon that.

I hope other manufacturers follow Tesla's lead. But the car industry is not the industry that likes innovation it actually really really likes status quo and follow the leaders sort of method. And this should end and how the sense is some people go bankrupt.

There have been hundreds of car companies in the US. I can listen you've probably never even heard of they all went out of business and it didn't matter.

I think a good move would be first to have the federal government **** off. As all of their interruptions have never made anything better at all.

 

I really don't know what manufacturer could "follow Tesla's lead" on price cuts.

Other car models just don't have the profit margins that Tesla has. What they have is huge debt and tiny margins.

I DO agree with a lot of what you are saying here. But, if they plan to compete in the EV marketplace, they have to make huge investments. And, given their current debt it will be amazing if they can do that successfully. Nobody is close to the speed and efficiency of Tesla car manufacturing. And, Ford and the rest don't have that. Plus, Tesla sells direct to customers, with no dealership markup and no lots of unsold cars.

I really think the EV subsidies from the federal government are to help legacy auto companies to make the switch to EVs. If we want that to happen, that's one of the few things the federal government can do.

It may well not work. But, it does help. No doubt Tesla will suck up their portion, but the rest will continue to be subsidized.

Last year, the Tesla portion lasted to about August. So, with no federal help they ended the year with a Q4 that was startlingly good.

 

I don't think it's smart for legacy brands to switch to EVs it's still a novelty and I don't think most people want them. They need to follow Tesla's lead. Electric cars are dreary garbage until Tesla made them cool.

Google gm EV1. that piece of crap made a Saturn look like a Corvette. They have to follow Tesla's lead in the EV market because they destroyed it.

 

That might work. And, there is some truth in that, too.

It's a pretty dang big bet to plan for EVs to be a passing fad.

No automaker believes that.

It will be telling to see if Tesla can truly break out of the "early adopter" market and start becoming mainstream.

 

It's a bigger bet to think that this time they'll get it after a century and a half of trying.

The inconveniences of an EV cannot be overlooked.

Then why are they only using mothballed models to make EVs?

That's the only market there is right now. It may be the only market there is.

Nobody that rents an apartment can have an EV with the convince of home charging, so for them it's a pain in the ass to own it.

So that's a vast chunk of the market gone especially in cities.

 

So far, there are manufacturers who have thought that they don't need to engineer an EV from the bottom up - instead they can just use what they have built ICE cars from. Stallantis gave up on that. They bought the Jeep plant in IL near Chicago with the idea that could turn it into an EV factory, but then they found that's not realistic and are closing the factory.

I've tried to be careful about mention the Apt situation. I agree that is serious. It means you have to charge at work or go to a charging station.

I think that's going to take time to have apts with charging, as there will be resistance to adding that feature, and it may in fact be hard to add. Also, some apts don't really have adequate parking in the first place.

 

There's a bigger component to the apartment situation they will have to build a parking garage for every car to install a charger in. I used to work around apartment complexes and once in a while we'd have these people drive through there with a pickup truck to pull all the great off the drains and the manhole lids and take off with them to scrap them. Steel equals pennies. They will lift manholes off of the ground for pennies. They'll come in there with cutters and cut all the leads off of those because they're copper and copper is far more valuable than steel.

So short of building a garage for every single car that can be locked there's not going to be charging at apartment complexes. Same issue with where you work that is if you're lucky enough to work are you drive to a parking lot and your car stays there all day a lot of people don't work that way those people use their cars for work.

Also I worked at a pipe yard once they didn't have electricity there who's going to pay to install the electric system to charge my car is going to pay the electric bill?

 

They actually are more complete and calculate all cost including the porportional cost of the charging equipment per 100 mile charge. YOU HAD TO PAY FOR IT.

They show the cost of the gas itself and the taxes separately which is why the $2.80/gallon, add in the state and local taxes.

 

Yes, not all apartment buildings are set up in a way that can be electrified. Plus, the cost of doing so would require raising the rent.

Over time, charging could become an important feature for buildings.

Yes, there are businesses that aren't going to provide charging. But, all public chargers have id systems to know who to charge.

 

Yes - those are major reasons why that site's comparison is TOTAL CRAP.

ICE owners don't get to be free of taxes on their vehicles or fuel. And, EV owners don't get to be free of the tax on electricity.

And, the cost they claim for charging equipment is a one time charge for buying the car - not a charge that is anywhere close to a third of the total cost of energy for each and every 100 miles.

Give it a rest. Trying to defend that crap is just plain silly.

 

So if you live in an apartment and work at a business that you can't charge at it makes these incredibly inconvenient.

And we're talking a good chunk of the population so it'll be a long long time before these leaves the realm of novelty.

 

Yes, I would rate that as less convenient.

It would require a fuel stop every few hundred miles. That in itself isn't a huge change.

Current technology is reducing fuel stop time by increasing power of charging stations and improving battery charging characteristics, but today it's still a definitely longer stop than is stopping for gas. Locally, there are charging stations in places like shopping centers. Also, various corporations provide charging as a benefit to employees.

There is NO question about it not being perfect and requiring people to figure out their own circumstances and needs. There are other issues, too. If you want to pull your boat to a mountain lake somewhere, one would have to look to see if a F-150 lightening can actually do that.

 

then every other option.

no fuel wouldn't do you any good there's no fuel tank to put it into. That would be an internal combustion engine car perhaps a steam powered car.

What you need to do do an electric car is charging.

This would be extraordinarily inconvenient. If say 20% of the population drove these and the only way you could make it useful and say 40% of the people in your city would also have to do this because they live in apartments too would be going to a public charger. Without building a lot more power plants there won't be too many of these. So you'll be waiting hours to charge your car and that'll be before you can even get to the charger.

you don't have fuel stops in an electric car. They don't have a fuel tank and they are not in analog for a fuel tank.

The second this moves out of novelty you will be in brownouts so people can drive around.

the smartest move is just stick with the normal car electric cars are toys for rich people.

it can't. If it could semis would have been electric 60 years ago.

 

I used "fuel" to mean either fossil fuel or electricity.

Yes, we do need improvements on the electricity side.

We need more production. But, just as importantly, we need far better management and distribution of what we produce.

We also need better batteries and charging times, which ev manufacturers are working on in serious manner.

 

electricity isnt fuel it's energy this is the fundamental difference.

no it's more like we need a fundamental change. The inconvenience of an electric car for someone who doesn't own their home and does it work at a place where they can charge their car is greater in a lot of cases than walking.

why go through all this trouble for no benefit at all?

Even if you do somehow produce six times more energy than we need and everyone's breathing in Coal smog. How is that an improvement?

Why not just say we need teleportation and forgo all of this nonsense we're going to talk about stuff that we don't have though would make life better why not go for the ultimate.

Teleportation you wouldn't need roads you wouldn't need trucks you wouldn't need ships you wouldn't need planes anything?

Batteries operate on a property of electrolysis where you have an anode and a cathode submerged in an electrolyte. There's only so good you can make that.

When the innovations come that make it to where you can have a battery that you can fast charge over and over and over and it doesn't damage it then consider adopting the new technology right now that's science fiction.

 

There are significant advances being made in battery technology.

Today's mark seems to be Tesla. Their batteries are claimed to be good for 300K to 500K miles. You can get 200 miles of charging in 15 minutes.

Nobody including Tesla even slightly believes that is good enough.

Yes, I would oppose the "coal smog" direction.

 

turn up show me the battery that isn't an electrode and a cathode submerged in electrolyte.

claimed means nothing there's people that claim these pills they sell you on the internet makes your penis larger.

This is a scam to part fools from their money.

And you can't get 200 miles of charging in 15 minutes you can get the 200 miles of charging in 15 minutes and the most ideal conditions that never exist. If it's -20°F forget it. You aren't getting that kind of mileage.

And if you routinely fast charge your battery you're going to create dendritic growth in it and it's going to reduce significantly the life of the battery.

You need to confront the false promises by a flimflam artist with rational skepticism it's that that's missing why I call this a religion.

some people do they paid dearly for terribly built cars and almost zero service.

You can buy a Honda that's gas powered for less money and you can take it to any dealership in the US for service.

I agree it's utterly stupid to buy an electric car that doesn't stop people from doing it.

then you absolutely must oppose the electric car it is not an electric car it is a coal powered car or a natural gas powered car.

The convenience of a car has been removed from it so that you feel better about not having tailpipe emissions but you do because the power plant produces electricity.


This is the environmental cultishness of these things. People are putting them imaginary box around the car as though it exists separately in the environment to the generation of power. When in reality there's a box around the planet called the atmosphere.

 

OK, I'm out.

You have your opinion, and as long as you feel free to simply declare all info as false, there is no point in continuing.,

 

that's because throwing your hands up in frustration and storming off is all you have left.

The reality is I am correct.

My opinions are very rational. I'm not declaring all information false that is a straw man and you have to do that because you want to believe like a Bible clutching Christian.

When you're trying to sell somebody on some innovative unproven technology you oversell. This isn't saying that everything is false so calm down. It's saying approach with skepticism.

The same way you approach any other religion.

I've seen you talk about religion in threads and how high and mighty you are because you don't believe in religion but you do.

If Elon musk told you his stupid electric car can make your penis larger and make you smarter and make you attractive to women and make you no longer susceptible to cancer you would believe it because you want to.

That's how religion works.

 

I'd point out that you're the one storming.

I'm the one not interested in that kind of BS.

 

It is more likely like consolidation. The US used to have 110 or so auto manufacturers in the early 1920s. By the 1950s, there were the big three which plus a couple of other companies, like the Studabeaker, which used to make wagons in the 19th century. And then you have Tucker Inc, which the Big 3 destroyed that company using the courts because of his innovation.

 

I'm not the one running away from the conversation

Calling skepticism BS is exactly how religions operate.