Worse than 1929 depression

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by billy the kid, Dec 19, 2018.

  1. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,919
    Likes Received:
    817
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
    scarlet witch likes this.
  2. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,919
    Likes Received:
    817
    Trophy Points:
    113
    https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/the-risky-world-of-online-foreign-exchange/10922394
    Well..is it a gamble or isnt it....
    ASIC comes out and blatantly states that this is a gamble....
    But wait....if you make a profit on this, or day trading on the stock market, trading
    in CFDs, you have to pay capital gains tax. I know..Ive been stung for CGT for day trading.
    Is the ATO going to come out and refute this and say its not a gamble.
    If its a gamble, then why do you have to pay CGT on your profits...
    I wait for the day when some well heeled day trader comes along and proves that
    day trading or anything like it IS A GAMBLE...and it is proven that CGT is not payable.
    Watch the sh1t hit the fan then...no revenue from this con any more....what a mess
    our taxation system is in.......
    CGT, GST, tax on taxes, income tax, payroll tax etc etc.....what a joke....
     
  3. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,919
    Likes Received:
    817
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, after watching Part II of the 7.30 programme on the world of on line currency trading, I have come to the conclusion that theres a sucker born every minute and these mugs who did their arses knew jack sh1t about
    trading and should have just gone to Randwick and bet on the nags.
    Even then, I doubt if they would have had the brains to put a bet on.
     
  4. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,919
    Likes Received:
    817
    Trophy Points:
    113
    https://amp.smh.com.au/business/ban...5FrWzC8przhob6f4e1CPqau3sVNTJ6F6RBmvMINCmFiiw
    Well, isnt this a great idea by the ANZ thieves...
    You only need 10% deposit now for your investment property, and guess what, theyll allow you to have a
    loan for the next ten years and only pay the interest.
    Isnt that fantastic...you can rent your investment property out to a renter, and for ten years all you need to pay is the interest...what a con...of course anyone included in the thousands of people coming off interest only loans in the next couple of years will be able to refinance with the ANZ thieves...and just keep paying
    interest only for another ten years.
    I guess the poor banks have to make their money somewhere, the peasants are only paying the minimum
    on their maxed out credit cards...
    Quick...go and buy a house everyone...before you miss out....and the ANZ will be waiting to rip you off.....again.....
    This is not an attempt to spur the market, its an attempt to corner the market by being first to offer the peasants what they will describe as a "great deal"
    No wonder we had a RC when every bank was peddling interest only loans as their only product...
    Dont ya just love banks.....
     
  5. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,919
    Likes Received:
    817
    Trophy Points:
    113
  6. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,919
    Likes Received:
    817
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Did I see the RBA reduce rates recently...does that mean that the economy is going gangbusters...
    We all know that the economy is fuked…
    And that fkn moron Lowe comes out and says its to stimulate inflation....
    wtf...does he want us all to pay MORE for everything...the mans a fool.....
     
  7. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
    Messages:
    7,507
    Likes Received:
    2,227
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That's the second time I've read that and have not understood.

    The only thing I can think you might be referring to is the physical work put into something you make money from. What you may not be considering is, the cost of setting up a business and keeping it competitive is high. Most average folks don't have that kind of money.

    Is this what you mean?
     
  8. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    First of I am not taking about small business, not even most big business. I am talking about the powerful, the big oil, big mineral, Murdoch among others, the dirty old money we know little about except the vision of them at places like the Epping Club.
    Take a little drive along Hopetoun Ave or around Mosman you can smell the blood money.
    Unfortunately, small business, the backbone of Australia, has very little say
     
  9. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
    Messages:
    7,507
    Likes Received:
    2,227
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What would Aus 'look like' in your mind's eye? In other words, what changes would you make? How would it be run? Can you put a name to the type of government you would have and it's economic model?
     
  10. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    4,995
    Likes Received:
    6,344
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ten straight years of predicting imminent economic collapse.

    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/page/329

    Capture.PNG

    That's one way to make a living.
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  11. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Premier-presidential, federal republic and a constitutional representative democracy.
    I propose a slightly different way of approaching the appointment of the President, Prime Minister and Treasurer.
    These three are the most important roles and they should be dedicated to that role as the elected official of the country and all its people. They would not have a constituency as well.
    At the present we are given who would be appointed to each position, but we really have no say as to who we end up with, how long they are there etc. This way they are responsible to us, not the party to keep their jobs.
    I will talk about economic side after I see your opinion of this. No matter what economic plan you have it's useless if it's not governed well
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  12. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I would actually add at least one, possibly three new states, I know everyone thinks our government is too large now and a lot want states abolished altogether but I don't think we would wear a unitary system or that it would be the best way to govern such a vast and diverse continent
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  13. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
    Messages:
    7,507
    Likes Received:
    2,227
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You have to find a way to reduce the chances of corruption through lobbying or other means of persuasion. Otherwise, you cannot count on elected officials to represent the voter. They don't know exactly what any voter is thinking, anyway.

    It's too easy for the legislature to get mad at the prime minister. The government might become neutered for a while with only a president. This would look like the House of Reps in the U.S. today. They do nothing except attack the president, when they could be using their influence and power to work on solutions to issues of the day.
     
  14. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Lobbying is what democracy is all about, from writing a letter to your local representative to forming a concerned citizens group right through to industry groups like the Farmers Federation or the NRMA.
    It's the mercenary groups that act on behalf of secret groups. We have to tighten up our rules on declaration of interest, etc.
    We have more lax regulations than Canada and probably even the US. We need the tightest rules to give everyone a fair suck at the sav.

    I am hoping we can run a system with a little more sanity than the US. There are problems with any system that has safeguards, that's what safeguards do.

    The house of reps is facing situations no one ever believed that they would.
     
  15. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We need to fix a system that allows criminal actions to have such devastating effects on millions of people. We need to fix a system where things like a 40 billion drop in a company can happen overnight.

    These hard working business people that invest not just time and energy but substantial amounts of money. They depend on the government to ensure level playing fields and legal activities.

    Unregulated or even self regulated capitalism would destroy itself as has been shown in the banking industry.

    If we hadn't had the Royal commission the industry would have become more and more rotten until the stench was so bad something had to be done.

    Basically if you boil it all down, capitalism is about profit and the only limitations as to what you can do to achieve that profit is that it has to be within the law.
     
    Chester_Murphy likes this.
  16. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
    Messages:
    7,507
    Likes Received:
    2,227
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I was considering those who can offer some sort of income for the efforts of legislators when I was considering lobbying. I'm not really talking about petitioning them. Petitions with evidence of important issues and how folks are being effected are what lobbying is all about. I just don't like the ability of Congress to make money from the petitioners or lobbyists. These are things I've read online. I do not believe they are false. If there is no law against doing something, any folks will take advantage. It's just human nature.
     
  17. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I know of one thing that would be hard to stop.
    Politician A is a strong supporter of industry X and always votes to support legislature in their favour. He reaches his requirements to receive his pension and retires from politics and is offered a high paid salary in the industry.
    He could genuinely be interested in that industry or the job could be payment for services rendered previously.
     
  18. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The kind of economics we follow has too many flaws for it to work successfully for the good of all people.

    Our system is based on created conditions not the natural conditions of capitalism.

    Capitalism is designed to allocate scarce resources, goods and services.

    Capitalism was based on supply and demand, or more correctly, demand and supply.

    Capitalism also relies on profit. Not just a profit for the businesses and investors, but profit for all, the workers as well.

    No one would go to work if it cost them more than they got paid. For example, fly in fly out workers would not do it if they had to pay for their own fares and accommodation. They couldn't afford to unless they were paid more.

    For hundreds of years labour was a cheap resource often it was free. A lot of raw materials could be collected around the world for no more cost than a few ships, a few hundred soldiers and the support of a monarchy that is keen to expand its territory.

    They made their riches from pillaging other countries of resources as well as human slave labour distributing the wealth among themselves tossing crumbs to the workers.

    Unions of workers (here is the reason capitalism hates unions) stood up to the employers. Now the workers wanted more than crumbs, slavery was out and the common man had a united voice.

    The wealthy used the riches they had accumulated during the centuries of feudalism to try and keep the system working.

    In the past, profit was easy, you paired up with the king/queen, hired a boat, went to some undeveloped nation, took the indigenous people as slaves and stole their resources.

    As things tightened up we used to outsource our theft and slavery needs to countries like China and India.

    The problem is that the system relies on the income of its employees to make money for them to pay their employees enough money to spend with them to pay their wages, the resources, management costs, working capital and return on investment so they can pay tax and... Wait a minute, we seem to want to get out more than we put in, that's called profit, that's the underlying principle of capitalism.

    How do we solve the problem, we need more money than we earn to buy what we do and make so those we work for can make more money?

    DEBT.

    Debt is good, it gives those that work for us enough money to buy the stuff they do and make and gives us a two fold profit, one for the goods and one on the interest for the loan we gave them to buy what they have made. It also keeps them beholding to us, too scared to push for more pay or fairer conditions.

    They then go to an economic system that has more smoke and mirrors than a carnival.

    And here we are.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  19. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
    Messages:
    7,507
    Likes Received:
    2,227
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That's what needs to be curtailed.
     
  20. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    OK besides capitalism being like perpetual motion, looks good on paper, sounds fantastic, but when you look at every aspect, it just plain cannot work.

    If we could get a wheel to spontaneously start spinning without us having to do any work, and if we overcome resistance and friction then yes we would have achieved perpetual motion. But what for? Once we require that wheel to do work we are now trying to create something from nothing.

    Now think of capitalism that way.

    Other stuff ups we do to the system.

    Scarcity, often created just to push up value.
    Demand. It supposed to be the demands of the consumer where today more than not demand is created by industry through advertising and fashion etc
     
  21. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Macro Scamonomics 101
    I would like a 500 word essay on the subject on my desk by 9:00am tomorrow morning
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  22. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Agreed
     
  23. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Once we built factories to make millions, now we write computer programs to make billions.

    Sometimes a hiccup in the market can cost billions driving thousands into despair.

    The world doesn't rely on supplying the necessities of life, it relies now on supplying the advertised luxuries of life, something the system was never designed to do.
     
  24. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Here is what amazes me. The government are saying, especially to men's health, look if you're having problems, talk about it, see a professional.
    You see some sort of counselor or therapist. They will take you back and find the root of the problem, maybe there is something holding you back, you could even be in denial.

    When it comes to the health of the nation, here I mean our society, our morals, our beliefs and prejudices, it is them that is in denial that we have problems.

    Their concerns are purely fiscal, why it even expands the health care industry, and that's got to be a good thing right?
     
  25. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    1,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Once again today we see the looming prospect of another interest cut and all the discussion that will surround it.

    There is only one reason why, to stimulate the economy, hmm it is really, to keep the economy alive.

    It's equivalent to giving a patient oxygen to keep them alive as their lungs are collapsing.

    Oh for the days when we could just take what we wanted. The good old days before all the do gooders started screwing things up
    You know, no tipping crap into the rivers and landfill, slaves and underdeveloped nations to rape and plunder.

    But now we have to care, I know it's a four letter word.
    Example.
    Once we got our timber for next to nothing, we went to Africa or somewhere and took the timber, the natives were usually enslaved so labour costs were low, a bit of poor quality food and the cost of chains.
    The timber was worked by peasant tradesmen who were paid a pittance. They didn't need money to buy stuff, they made and traded stuff. The wealthy now traded among themselves, it was nothing more than a redistribution of wealth among the wealthy.

    Then we cared!

    We stopped slavery, we started having to buy the raw materials and yes, the killer blow, pay our workers wages. That's not all, they wanted conditions, better ones, safer ones, fairer ones, equal ones, all kinds of bloody conditions. They wanted days off, they wanted holidays, they wanted and wanted.
    Then they wanted enough money to buy other stuff, just like the rich could.

    So we have a problem, we have to pay for our resources and manufacture goods from them and pay our workers enough so they can buy the goods back at a profit to their employers.

    Doesn't seem to work right, right. So what is the answer?

    1: Fiddle the books.
    2: Get people to borrow money

    In Australia we are doing a combination of both.

    Does it fix it? No
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019

Share This Page