My argument against pro lifers

Human life does NOT START at conception, it is present before conception in the egg and in the sperm. Eggs and sperm are human and alive, why is that concept so hard for you to grasp?

That is not an issue that concerns me, this thread is about abortion.

Everything was fine? Abortions occurred at the same rate when abortion was illegal....except that many women died from illegal abortions.

You are wrong. That statement is not in the Constitution, it is in the Declaration of Independence. The DofI has no legal authority and was never intended to be a legal authority.

 

I bet your glad your mother didn't have the same opinion as you.

 

I am not ethnocentric by any means, but preventing a human life from happening seems pretty contradictory to the continuation of the human species and just about every other human institution of thought there is, even Buddhism with its reincarnation believes that preventing a human life from being born without a really good reason (failure to accept responsibility for your actions is not a good reason) is really bad dharma. That being said maybe some women should be more responsible so they do not have to continually suck unborn humans out of their wombs. even in the horrible situation of being raped, you would need to understand that the baby has nothing to do with the attacker. its innocent and should have as much of a chance to live as any other person would ideally have. if not wanted, the adoption is an option.

your ethics are skewed. just because a living creature cannot attest to its desire to live does not mean that they are fair game to being disposed of because they are inconvenient to us. I think that any reasonable person could probably come to the conclusion that anything alive probably wants to live. even a human child that is newly born is considered by most pediatricians as a "fourth trimester" in that they are essentially still a fetus, albeit one that you can see.

 

Look, it's really simple: If life is present in the components of conception BEFORE conception, then life doesn't begin at conception. LIFE is already there. You are just attempting to make the point of conception into something magical and there's simply nothing magical there. It's just another point of development.

"No comment" is a "gotcha"?

Nobody will ever know how many women died because their deaths were frequently covered up out of respect for the women's families. We do know that women died for no good reason because abortion is a safe medical procedure when performed under sterile conditions. Illegal abortions were expensive, driving women to the do-it-yourself unsafe kind.

The Constitution is very meaningful, and it doesn't say anything about abortion. Patrick Henry's saying "Give me liberty or give me death" is remembered to this day because it reflects a common feeling that life is worthless without the freedom to live as you choose.

 

The sperm and the egg are living and are of human origin. When they come together though they make a whole new life form completely different.

A sperm by itself will never grow to be a baby, an egg by itself the same.

When the 2 come together then you have a human person.

Personhood begins at conception.

 

Even if it did it goes nowhere without implantation.

Did you know they had done research with implanting fertilised eggs into male mice - apparently the best place for them to develop was in the scrotal sac.

ANY time you want to volunteer to save a "person"..............................

 

What is your point?.

 

So you're one of the "instant personhood" believers? BTW, a zygote will not by itself grow to be a baby.

 

And when one of your grandchildren was born….if they had not been attended too…could they have survived? Did they get help? That which is in the womb…is growing there…it is not a part of the woman. It has its own circulatory system, fingerprints, organs…..they do not use its mothers. Both the child in the womb and the one who was just born…NEED HELP TO MAKE IT. NEITHER OF THEM ARE A PART OF THE MOTHER.

Louise Brown…was conceived in a Petri dish…she had all the genetic makeup she needed before being implanted. She was not conceived in the mother….her life began in that dish. She grew in her mother.

 

read the first page where OP said " show me a quote from a fetus that says it wanted to be alive" ...... and lol`d.

Using that logic, anyone who can not speak or write would not want to live.... lol?

 

Must we explain the difference between social dependence and physical dependence once again? All of us are sometimes socially dependent. A zef is physically dependent upon one person only.

She grew in her mother as all of us did. She grew because of her mother as all of us did. She could not grow without that attachment, so she could not become a baby "all by herself".

 

So what...

so what.

 

OKgrannie said,

No….and your point does not matter. WE are talking about lives of humans that need attention. And there is no difference between the life in the womb and a child born. Neither can live on their own.

Louise Brown grew in her mother…she was not a part of her mother.

And a newborn can't survive without help.

 

There is a world of difference between unborn and born. A born child can sustain it's own life, it only needs help. The unborn cannot sustain their own lives, they must be attached to a life-giver.

Mrs. Brown's body thought the zef was a part of her body, otherwise her body would have rejected it.

A newborn can, however, sustain its own body with its own body organs.

 

OKgrannie said,

Yea

What is the difference between a child born 5 seconds out of the womb and where it had been 5 seconds prior?
A born child can not sustain its own life. Not true. In fact it needs more help then …than it did while in the womb. A child that is born would die if left alone. The connection…is the same…whether it gets its food through a bottle or while in the womb.

Mrs. Browns body did not conceive..the life of the baby had nothing to do with her….before implantation. The child was complete…before implantation. Mrs. Brown provided the place to live until birth…that is it.

So the child in the womb has no organs? The unborn is NOT A PART OF THE WOMAN. WHAT ORGAN DO THEY SHARE?

 

OKgrannie YOU JUST DO NOT SEE ANY VALUE IN THE LIFE IN THE WOMB…NOT AT ANY STAGE.

 

It depends on the stage of growth that it should be considered alive.

 

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to post this link yet again:
http://eileen.undonet.com/Main/7_R_Eile/Human_Metamorphosis.html

A born child may receive assistance, as may any of us, but it is sustaining its own life. It is breathing, ingesting food, digesting it, excreting, etc. all on its own.

If the so-called "child" was complete before implantation there would have been no need for implantation. Enough of this idea that a woman is just a vessel, a container, an incubator, and contributes nothing to the creation of a child.

The zef in the womb, the zygote has no organs, the embryo is in the process of developing organs, and fetus is in the process of maturing organs, none of which can function to sustain the zef's body until at least 22 weeks, and then only with extensive medical assistance. The woman's body THINKS the zef is a part of her body, otherwise it was be rejected, OIOW misscarried.

 

Exactly. My mother had to get some sort of shot when she was pregnant with me because her body was treating me like a foreign object and would have caused a miscarriage otherwise.

Most of the time this doesn't happen though.

 

LMAO…to stupid to comment on.

 

How? How is it stupid hmm? Theres is a obvious point at which you can call a wombing baby alive. Just like when you change from child to teen. Would anyone in this thread have a problem with a single sperm dying? Or an unfertilized egg cell that stop functioning? No? Thats because they arent a self sentient organism yet. Which is what they turn into if joined together. So no its not stupid<<<mod edit>>> PA/BPPF

 

OKgrannie

This is from where? LOL Another website? Some Eileens opinion? Who is Eileen?

Tell me why in America do we have laws against late term abortion.why? If there is a huge difference and viability is not an issue&#8230;then why isn't abortion ALL LEGAL?

And our laws say it would have been viable&#8230;.from twenty some weeks on&#8230;that is why abortion then is illegal. LOL

The thing is&#8230;.the born child needs to be fed&#8230;and the unborn needs nourishment&#8230;that the mother provides. Tell me which one is more time consuming?

Does the unborn have or is a part of its mothers heart? liver? Does it have its mothers fingerprints? Does it have the same blood type? Sex? Does it use the mothers circulatory system? Heart?

Actually the mothers body regards the fetus as a foreign object. The fetus also contains the fathers DNA.

http://academic.wsc.edu/mathsci/hammer_m/separate.htm

http://livingtheway.org/fetus.html

It is so odd that an unborn child can be operated on outside the womb and be put back. Do the doctors operate on a part of the mother too&#8230;or the separate life in the womb? if the unborn is apart of her&#8230;.then how could this be done?



These surgeries are not done on the mother&#8230;but the separate life she carries.

http://news.yahoo.com/tiniest-patients-fetal-surgery-delivers-big-results-123732722.html?_esi=1

 

Life starts at conception&#8230;not 10 - 13 - 22 weeks into the pregnancy. It is a human life from the start. Your alive in the womb, when you are delivered, when you are a child&#8230;.a teenager&#8230;..young adult.
Abortionists are hired to kill&#8230;.that WHICH IS LIVING IN THE WOMB.

You called me a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) eh? LMAO

You can do better than that can't you? And who said (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) is a bad thing to be?

 

Personhood has always been a BS pro choice term. A "person" and a "human being" are one and the same. So unless you want to look ridiculous and claim a human fetus is not a human being, quit with the idiotic rhetoric.