Can you condemn Mohammad Ali for his racist views?

Of course we care about racism. We also care about context. Hence my example, Hitler had power and the will to commit genocide, Ali did not.

 

Of course I condemn the whites for being racist. As a Modern Secular Humanist, I'm a member of the world's least racist belief system.
You seem to think the the way to fight racism is to....BE RACIST.

Ali himself felt Christians were racists: "“How could they say that my religion, Islam was a ‘race hate’ religion after all the plunder and enslavement and domination of my people by white Christians in the name of white supremacy?”
http://atlantablackstar.com/2016/06...black-quotes-that-challenged-systemic-racism/

 

Just so I'm clear. When you say "Modern Secular Humanist" do you mean the same thing as the Atheism+ thing? If so, you're batty.

 

I can't....he's dead.

 

He's one of the most admired people on the planet, so of course he was power! Time to get real. Wow.

Ali said: "You're my enemy. My enemy is the white people!"
And said "All white people are the devil": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJu8sVWQ-wk
And blames all white people for homosexuals, at 1:23: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyad99ncEp0

Can you condemn Ali for his, likely religiously-inspired, supremacism and hatred of homosexuals? I do.

 

It's certainly great for Ryan to tell the truth. But, that just isn't the issue at ALL!

The issue is what needs to be done when there are no guys like Ryan - or not nearly enough of them.

You are essentially asking that African Americans (and/or other minorities) peacefully wait for some white guy somewhere to give them equality.

Sorry. Nobody "gives" anyone equality. People demand recognition for the equality that is inherent.

They raise the issue politically, in the courts or on the streets until they achieve progress of some sort.

And, if you oppose them, yes, you will get added to the list of those who must be defeated.

 

I was going to ask you to condemn Hitler, but I guess that would be a waste of time, as you don't seem intellectually capable of doing that, apparently. Oh well.

 

Dawkins, Sam Harris, et al. "Modern"...they believe in democracy, for one thing, not like Stalin or Mao. Not perfect, but the most intelligent belief system the world has seen so far. They don't have a book that implies that the world is 6000 years old, or a "prophet" (that had sex with a 9 year-old girl, etc., etc.) Dawkins is far better than Jesus because he condemns those who discriminate against gays, yet Jesus has been too cowardl in the last 2000 years to speak up for gays even though the main book about him says to KILL gays. Clearly a more moral belief system.

 

So I guess to a person that has the least amount of power in our society we can just give a PASS if they are blatant racists.

No, that's STUPID.

I've never seen a person try to run interference for racist like you are desperately trying to do. Why are you so such a racist-apologist? Is it that you are a closet racist yourself?

 

Obviously a young Cassius Clay was taught a lot of this like most blacks
from birth.It's called Indoctrination.
What he wasn't taught was Philosophy.Or Theology.That No human being
was ever born having a thing to do with their Race,the color of their eyes,or their
Gender.Their weight.If they are right-handed or left-handed.If as a kid they like
to eat their boogers.Or be tattle-tales.
Racists are in denial of this.As if somehow humans are born the way they
are because it's part of who they are.Humans are brought into this world
with nothing of themselves.They are a blank canvas.A book of unwritten
pages.Fetus are totally dependent on their sperm donor and moms.
Ali talks and acts like he planned his childbirth and origins of birth.
That is not how Humanity works.The animal kingdom somehow replacates
that because their's is not a higher intellect.Therefore a herd mentality.
Species that stick with their own.It is part of a less than rational animal existence.
Our Pets { Dogs & Cats } have learned to adapt more out of a herd mentality with
breeding.Not so with Cows and Chickens.
Muhammad Ali is acting out in sheer ignurnce.
Farm animals do not posess Free Will. Whereas our Pets in some cases
have.I doubt Muhammad Ali talks as if he truly believes in Free Will.
He talks like most Racist.That it is incumbent upon them to act according
to their Race.Nothing is more juvenile.
" My first act of free will shall be to believe in Free Will. "
-- William James { American psychologist,philosopher }.

 

I ask you a question about your use of "modern secular humanist" and you babble on to me about two of the four horseman of Atheism? They're also considered to be part of "new atheism". Secular Humanism has no link to Stalin or Mao, why mention them? Did you comprehend my question? Do you know what Atheism+ is? Next time, be coherent.

 

My intellectual capability is best used for learning and avoiding the mistakes humans made in history. I don't waste it on useless things like condemning dead people long gone. You should do the same.

 

He faced the problem - a problem that he very directly identified.

 

But if a dead racist is being CELEBRATED WORD-WIDE, then said dead racist should be condemned for his racism as well, or else people get the impression that racism is not bad, that we'll give racism a pass.

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[From a previous post] Ali said the following, so how the HELL do you admire his solution (by being a racist himself) to the problem?
Ali said: "You're my enemy. My enemy is the white people!"
And said "All white people are the devil": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJu8sVWQ-wk
And blames all white people for homosexuals, at 1:23: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyad99ncEp0

 

Can you demonstrate that he was a racist when he died? Or just the clips from when he was in his 20s?

 

I meant government power. Ali didn't hold any major political office from what I understand.

As I've said numerous times in this thread, there's no reason he wouldn't have said that in his time period nor do I hold it against him. Blacks and VietCong weren't the ones fighting against the Civil Rights Movement.

Post #62, which I said earlier should give an answer. While I personally don't believe all white are evil it's pretty difficult for me to wanna bash him for this given when he lived and what was going on. And unless you were black in the 60s and 70s I'd say its pretty self-righteous to wanna condemn him for his views at the time but not say anything of the people and society that vomitted that stigma in the first place. Take away the racism and segregation from back then and you'll take away any racism he may have learned from that.

 

I was there. At the time it was a very real confrontation.

Ali did what he needed to do. And, his contribution helped our nation to move forward.

There were plenty of people singing "Kumbaya" and that was not even slightly good enough to make progress.

 

Said dead racist is celebrated for being a serious black figurehead as well as a defiant rebel for basically giving the United States government the finger when he refused to be drafted into a war against people who did him no wrong i.e. sticking it to the man.

 

People tend to lump, say, Harris, in with atheists like Stalin, but his beliefs of course differ from Stalin in significant ways, such as approving of democracy, so I tried to nip that comparison in the bud. "New atheism" isn't that far off, and Atheism+'s views are often similar to my views but not necessarily.

 

Hitler was one of History's Greatest and most profound Bigots.A verifiable
Racist.He went to the extreme in outlawing Jewish marriages to gentiles.
Then declared that jews in Germany were no longer citizens.
He started and propagated his Hitler Youth.Also Hitler Females.
All based on his Master Race proclamations { The Aryan race }.
There was no such things as an Aryan Race.It was created by Hitler
and his Nazi party to segregate the German people more easily into
Blond haired and blue eyed.As Opposed to his arch nemesis the German
Jew who had Black hair and dark eyes.

 

Terrific boxer. Bravely defiant against a questionable war. Consummate entertainer. Good family man. Avowed racist.

See, some good and some bad. Let's commend the good (I liked his boxing style), and condemn the bad ("white people are the devil").

 

What a half-assed condemnation.

Anyway a deal's a deal.

I'll condemn Ali's racism before he got reformed even though it was completely reactionary and he moved on from it since.

 

I don't have video of Hitler on his death-bed being racist, but I'm still gonna condemn him as a racist....see how that works?

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That's good.

 

I really don't believe you have anything to complain about.

White people chose him to be the enemy.

It wasn't the other way around.

 

Forum member Athelite thinks it's a waste of time condemning racists, apparently, so I guess according to him you just wasted your time.
I, on the other hand, applaud you for condemning racism. You also condemn Ali's racism, correct?

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A great person rises above the racial hatred directed at him.