Can you condemn Mohammad Ali for his racist views?

I do admire your consistency.

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Correct.
I can't, but maybe YOU can ask btthegreat to condemn Ali's racism, since Ali's racism was indeed every bit as racist as the Klansmen.

 

Lets try it this way then . What is your evidence that I am unable to tie my shoes every day or that I am unable to ejaculate at night? Isn't the cumulative total of both, exactly the same as the cumulative total of evidence that I am unable to make a moral judgments?

 

You also go out of your way to kill the concept of God for other people. (*)(*)(*)(*) yourself and Merry Christmas.

That's what the (*)(*)(*)(*) I mean. Moonbat apostates can't keep to themselves. They absolutely have to rain on the parade of other people so that they can achieve a quasi-intellectual orgasm.

Maybe it's all nonsense. Maybe it's a flying spaghetti monster after all. The real deal is that the Bible is Hebrew poetry and is not intended to be taken literally enough that dooshes walk into lion cages or handle snakes. It's intended to be a moral compass that directs people not to murder or steal from each other, and to be beneficent and kind. But obviously, that's too much to ask from leftists who defend criminals at every opportunity instead of trying to understand what urban Democrats put law enforcement through every day.

 

But, but, but we have to give him a pass on his racism because he was black! But, uh, it's racist to do that (base actions on race), so uh, maybe we shouldn't do that.

 

That's because it seems delusional to me to believe that talking donkeys, talking snakes, and a talking dead guy that will let me survive my death are actually real. You and I are atheists....on 99.9% of all gods that have ever been proposed - I just go one more god than you do, that's all. So we're not all that different you and me.

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Yes, that's the worst part about being an atheist, we have no one's name to scream out when we get really really excited.

 

That's right. I don't spend one millisecond condemning Mohammed or Jesus or Moses. I am never going to, either. Its a choice I make because I don't know enough about them, and I do not accept your premise that is serves any purpose that outweighs the risk of being superficial, wrong and/ or offensive.

 

....and to kill gays, and to beat your slaves, and to bash babies heads against rocks (Psalms), and to teach that women are inferior to the superior (apparently) male:
(Genesis 2:7) God formed only a man: "...the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Realizing that he needed a helper (Genesis 2:18 ), God marched all of the animals past Adam (Genesis 2:19-20) looking for a suitable animal. Finding none suitable, God created Eve out of one of Adam's ribs."
The term "helper" has historically been interpreted as implying an inferior role for Eve,

 

I give you direct quotes from the texts!

You know enough about ME, apparently, to condemn ME! But remember, I'M not the one that approves of innocent, say, Hindus, being burned alive in some lake of fire or whatever, Jesus/Mohammad/Yahweh/Allah are....but you give them a pass....and you DO INDEED "know enough about them" to know that that's exactly what they preach! You can't, repeat can't, tell me that you aren't smart enough to research these verses and see that Jesus is a barbarian for saying that, say, someone like Gandhi deserves barbaric torture, for eternity! Come on, you're smarter than that.
John 14:6, Acts 4:12, 2 Thessalonians 1:1-10, John 3:18, John 10:27-28, Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8, John 5:2, John 3:36, John 6:47, Acts 16:31, Romans 10:9, Revelation 19:20, 20:10,14-15, 21:8

Educate yourself, man!

 

You don't get it, something like half of all American Christians think that Genesis is true, that the world is 6000 years old....that would mean that Jesus was a liar, because he approved of Adam/Eve, and Darwin showed that Jesus was wrong, and therefore a con-artist - yet they think this con-artist was far and away the best person in the history of the universe. Yet you seem to want to give that delusion a pass.

 

We're digressing. I'm not an atheist, and we're done with that.

Black people are their own problem. They will never get anywhere because they defend criminals, idolize thugs, and complain about oppression where there no longer is anything preventing them from even being President. All of their gripes are bull(*)(*)(*)(*). Everyone in a white collar work situation knows that a black woman would practically have to kill someone to get fired, but a white guy can get sacked for an awkward joke.

 

You can't even condemn god/Jesus' acceptance of the killing of gays, so of course you can't make moral judgments - end of story, my friend. That's all the evidence I need.

 

I invite you to have more faith....faith in science, a consistent, provable thing that transcends ancient ethnic superstitions (Hindus, Jews, Muslims, etc. can't agree on how the world was created, religiously, but they can indeed agree on the scientific makeup of, say, H2O.)

 

The first person you mentioned is the underlying cause of the longest war in US history, that we are in right now, with no end in sight.....his call to religious holy war ("Jihad").

 

If you (or I) strive to only tell the TRUTH, then how can the TRUTH be "offensive"!? It might be a hard pill to swallow, but that truth needs to be told. You would not knowingly lie on this forum, so don't worry about "offending" if you are telling the TRUTH.

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On 99.9% of the gods you certainly are. Believe in Ra, do you? Believe in Allah, do you? Believe in Odin, etc., do you? See we're both atheists when it comes to the vast vast majority of gods - you don't believe them because their claims are absolutely ridiculous.

 

I don't need to have more faith in science. I'm well acquainted with it. That's not the topic of this conversation.

 

But his supporters CAN defend him, and with the way they are giving his blatant racism a pass they are showing their true colors. Celebrity seems more important to them than racism is. Interesting.

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Is a talking donkey "scientific"?

 

Surely your definition of "moonbat" would include those that believe in a book that says that animals can directly talk to humans, correct?

 

What cause does it serve to pick apart what a dead man believed while he was alive? His family is grieving and not in the mood for a fight. Maybe you should consider their feelings too?

 

"We disagree with the champ's racism".
Six simple words is all they'd have to say.
If I was president of a company and I used the "N-word" I'd rightly get fired, but "the greatest" was a racial supremacist and his racism gets DEFENDED.....something is wrong with this picture.

 

My "fight" is not with his family - good point you made. It's with the hypocritical people who would have called for GW Bush's impeachment if he did ANYTHING even remotely racist, but one of the "greatest of all time" gets an utter and COMPLETE pass (just look at the forum replies here) on racism/supremacism that would be far worse. People are letting a cult of personality overcome their sense of right and wrong.

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I didn't know they were on this forum.

 

I don't find them convincing. I don't know how accurately they reflect what these men did or said, and I don't know if they accurately reflect what you think they were supposed to mean in context, that you cannot supply nor that they had the impact you purport them to have had. I condemn you for what you say and do here on evidence that you supply here. You may be a saint outside this place.

 

I don't really see anyone "defending" him. Most people simply aren't making a big thing of it like you are. I think we have a lot more important things to worry about than the words of some dead and buried boxer.

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You asked why they did not get involved. They are probably not in the mood to be involved in this type of thing. They are in the process of grieving. If you've ever lost someone very close to you, you would know how that feels. It can be difficult to even function to capacity in those times.

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I believe he was sick with Parkinson's disease from the age of 42. Not to sound cruel, but he was a "has been." While a lot of people respected what he could do in the ring (I'm not too familiar with him - before my time - but my dad was a big fan), they didn't really care much about what he had to say. Lol. He was a boxer and probably not the brightest star in the sky to begin with.

 

And believers find all the evidence that they need to believe on faith, just as you believe on faith in your conclusions about what I am able or unable to do. I do not object to you having faith in your intuition about my character based on what I am willing to do with your requests for my cooperation. I do not object to what believers conclude about their favorite deity from those texts, and their experiences.

Faith is okay, and well warranted in its place. but it is not evidenced based and it sure is not consistent with how secular humanists normally claim to go about finding their conclusions to questions of fact or interpretation.

In short, you having all the evidence you need, is not the same as you having enough evidence to draw and support a reason- based conclusion. that is a point secular humanists should understand before they give any lectures to Christians or muslims or Jews or Hindus.

Before you reply, I will shred your 'evidence' of my ability to make moral judgements, based on your preferred lack of evidence that I do so, whenever you want, and I will shred it as many times as you claim it. I will turn it into a faith based belief faster than you can say 'flying spaghetti monster' You know as much about my ability to make moral judgements as you know about my ability to impregnate a woman, or make pancakes. By the way, I can do all three pretty well. I am damned out of practice on one of them though.

 

You stating that you love everybody but then wanting to condemn a dead man is a tad . . . contradictory, no? Don't you love Mohammad Ali?

 

There's more 'secular humanism' in Rabbi Lerner's eulogy to Ali than a million freedom seekers can muster.