Can you condemn Mohammad Ali for his racist views?

I realize that getting to the underlying belief, the heart of the matter, the underlying cause (the texts themselves that promote said atrocities) are at the core of solving the problem. You seem to want to give Jesus/Buddha/Mohammad/Moses a pass, but I can't do that, morally. I condemn the underlying texts precisely BECAUSE I DO INDEED care about the victims today of those barbaric texts. ISIS has sex slaves because their #1 role model said it was ok - you think if Mohammad said "no sex slaves!" that ISIS would say that Mohammad got that wrong, and go ahead and have sex slaves!? No, of course not! For the life of me I can't understand why you always seem to give the prophets a pass. To change the behavior, we need to change the belief.

 

You are obviously a poor predicter of my arguments. I never ever quote what Jesus said or interpret what he thought based on those quotes. They are literary creations of a character. He does not control my thinking any more than you do. Assuming all of the above, you know only that I refuse to condemn who you want me to, in the form that you want me to, where you want me to. You know nothing about any other occasion either in this forum, or on another forum, let alone outside any forum or in my private life. Your sample size is too small to determine whether I make one or a thousand moral judgements outside the scope of your requests for me to be part of your personal war against people of faith and the religions they may believe in.

 

That's pretty creative, I admire that.
I LOVE them. You don't seem to stand up for them like I do. Speaking of hatred, do you love people enough to condemn Mohammad for his hatred towards non-believers when he says that, for example, there is to be no punishment for murdering someone who insults him?
"Thereupon the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood....." See http://quotingislam.blogspot.com/2011/06/muhammad-said-there-is-to-be-no.html

 

My mission is not against the people, but faith itself (belief w/out evidence - such as "a magic talking dead guy will come back to let me survive my own death", all with no evidence), and barbaric religions. We are in the longest war in US history, with no end in sight, and the enemy desperately wants nukes, and faith/religions is the main cause of said conflict.

 

Easy to throw rocks from atop a glass house when you throw them at dead people.

 

You seem quite intellectual, so I'm always astonished that you can't even condemn "God/Jesus for his barbaric flood that killed 99.999999% of all innocent animals." If you won't even make a moral judgement against genocide of innocent little animals, then I doubt you can make any more judgments. Sorry, but someone needs to say it to you.

 

Your solution is to give racism a pass. Can you condemn Ali's racism?

I say let's condemn Trump's racism, the racism in religious texts, all other racism, wherever we see it. And when people are almost literally worshipping a racist (Ali - "the greatest"), we need to condemn said person's racism as well. Let's show people that even upon death their racism will still be condemned. I love people enough to condemn all racism. When a racist is making all the major news headlines, let's use it as a teachable moment.

 

then maybe you should make sure your beliefs as expressed in your assertions about others, match the evidence you can provide. Those are such nice sentiments when you want them applied to people who hold a religious faith, but you don't give a crap about how far your accusations about me, and my character fall from what you can establish here.

You care about what they can prove, but not about what you cannot. I do make moral judgments, they are not synchronized with your agenda. Hey I make plenty about what you are doing here and I am comfortable condemning your conduct here.

 

Throw rocks at my "house" (my belief system), I beg of you, as I want my belief system to be scrutinized as much as possible - because unlike religions I want my belief system to be improved on a continual basis.
Thanks.

 

Start by discussing honesty with real live people.

 

I'm just the messenger, but Jesus and pals are the actual guilty parties, let's not condemn the mere messenger, but the underlying "best prophet of all time that people pattern their behavior/teachings after."

- - - Updated - - -

How about we start with the most admired people of all time, such as Jesus, Mohammad, Mohammad Ali, Moses, Buddha, etc.

I'm still stunned that you can't condemn Ali's racism - he advocated not marrying outside of one's race! That sounds, well, almost, Biblical in nature to me.

 

You don't seem very intellectual to me.. this should not astonish you anymore. I don't like what you do here, I think you are completely disingenuous, and your arguments unsound and asinine. You still cannot fathom the difference between what I cannot do, what I will not do, or what I will not do for YOU.

I DO NOT CHOOSE TO COMPLY WITH WHAT YOU WANT. You seem to have issues recognizing that you are not entitled to get the replies you want from posters here. it does not mean we are morally inferior to you. It means you are out of luck trying controlling the direction that your threads take.

 

My evidence is theirs (and your) constant ongoing refusal to condemn barbaric religious teachings. Seriously, who'd have thought that it would be hard to get people to condemn genocide (yes, just like Hitler committed, but millions more people, actually) - but you guys seem to never be able to condemn God/Jesus for that. I'll keep trying, though.

 

What I want is for people to take a moral stand against genocide, and teachings that say to kill innocent people like gays, and apostates, and "blasphemers" (Bangladeshi Modern Secular Humanist bloggers, etc.) and cartoonists. Seems reasonable. But if I asked you to condemn Mohammad for saying to kill apostates, I'd just get rebuked by you - you'd condemn me, but give the underlying murderous instructions an utter and complete pass. I'm aghast.

 

He's dead, and just let bygones be bygones. Nobody knows if he had changed his views in his near death times or even before that. Why condemn a dead man? What purpose does that serve?

 

I know what your evidence is. I won't do what you want on your threads. That is the sum of your evidence. You decide that there can be only one explanation. Then you decide what that explanation will be. What kills me, is that I tell you why I don't do what you want. I tell you over and over again. I then offer moral judgements about you and your behavior that is directly contrary to your premise that I cannot offer moral judgements.

 

If you give the slightest (*)(*)(*)(*) about what a 70's boxer thought about white people, you need to find something to do.

 

You seem willing to condemn Jesus/Moses/Mohammad exactly as much as a hard-core Nazi is willing to condemn Hitler. That's not a good thing. I do acknowledge that they had some GOOD teachings, as well, to be sure ("love your neighbor" is great). But Hitler was, say, good with kids, and of course that doesn't give him a pass on the bad things he did - no amount of good things can make up for Hitler's or god/Jesus' genocide, for example.

PS 18 verses say that Jesus IS GOD, so when I say god/Jesus committed the flood-genocide, I'm backed up Biblically.

 

its okay to be aghast. It is not okay to draw a conclusion about me, unwarranted by the evidence. Not if you are a secular humanist, who gives lectures to people of faith about how skimpy their evidence for the conclusions they draw.

 

Do you care when a beloved cultural icon promotes racism? I do.

- - - Updated - - -

Sometimes, like in the case of wild religious claims ("god is real!"), and your inability to make moral judgments, LACK of evidence is indeed evidence. Sometimes, in some cases.

 

I'M not the one who is, say, the underlying cause of sex slavery in ISIS, yet you condemn me more than you've EVER EVER condemned Mohammad. Spend 1% of your time condemning me, if you wish, but spend 99% of your time condemning the underlying cause of the problems.

 

So you give, say, the dead prophet of Islam a pass (who is the boxer's namesake, interestingly) when he said that you are "deficient in intelligence" simply because you are a woman and and no other reason, Chris? Or should we "just let bygones be bygones?" https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Women_are_Deficient_in_Intelligence

A better way is to let people know that even after their death we will condemn their racism - we will condemn their racist legacy.

PS I think you're better than Mohammad/Jesus/Moses thought, by the way.

 

I do not condemn these historical figures based on the kind of flimsy evidence I think the historical record can provide and I do not discuss religion with you at all. I have been pretty consistent here.

 

Meh, I say forgive him. It doesn't make me feel good to talk crap about dead people. He's dead and he can't even defend himself.

 

At the same time, I cannot support his openly black supremacist, separatist views.

His defiance on the draft was admirable, but he was a racist every bit as much as the Klansmen.