Welfare State and Value of Humans.

The Bible commands caring for poor people. I do not see how is it ethical to abandon those who can not provide for themselves.

 

I wasn't talking about taxes. I was talking about being forced to take care of another mans needs,and that is slavery.
My family has to pay enormous insurance payments so others can get it all free!
My grandson was attacked by a fox, had rabi shots and hurt himself on roller skate board took off some of his face when he hit the curb. My daughter was paying $12,000 deductible, $1,2000 month payments. About #30,000 yr. and none of it paid one dime for his care, all out of pocket. Fox in July, then January plastic surgery. A very healthy family non smoking ,works out kid in all kinds of sports.
Why in the hell do you think this man my SIL works 7 days a week to have a good life and he has to make up for these welfare people having kids every year to lay on their ass and the ones knocking up not paying a dime.
Communist kind of government control is all it is.

 

No it does not! That verse was meant for the orphans and widows ONLY. It is always taken out of context. Even the sick were to be cared for by their own family or the church, not Caesar aka government.
Rome was a republic not a socialist state.

11Thes. 13:10 " if a man doesn't work neither should he eat".

 

Leviticus 19:9-10: “When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, neither shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest. And you shall not strip your vineyard bare, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner: I am the Lord your God.

Luke 12:33: Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys.

Hebrews 13:15-16: Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name. Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

Acts 2:42-46: And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. And all who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts,

Proverbs 14:21: Whoever despises his neighbor is a sinner, but blessed is he who is generous to the poor.

Matthew 6:1-2: “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.

If Christians won't do their duty to the needy and poor by literally living as the poor do yourself and handing them your worldly goods and money and food then the State must take your place and your the hypocrites cursed for your lack of charity if you wish to follow your own book. And what if a disabled person has no family or they don't have the means to support their disabled person or the one in need you would let them die in the street. I'm fine with that legalize government doctor supported suicide for everyone born disabled, who become disabled or who wish to die and we can start there after all I was born broken maybe for the good of the state you should have had me tossed onto some rocks to die. I love religious people its easy to live when your doing well, when nothing bad happens and when you can ignore the obligations of those who your supposed to honor in your book and forget your duties to those with less. So the State wisely as the government placed over you by god does your job for you ever think your being punished by this god of yours.

Seriously it often takes the outsiders to religion to show the plank in the eye of those of faith and this is a big one since the Bible says in many places the poor, not just orphans and widows.

 

Most of it was covered by the church in my post and has everything to do with these charity verses you put up. Charity begins at home then give to your church or the poor willingly, not be forced to take in the whole world.
We had clinics for the poor basically since we were a nation but not the governement because of how easy politicians can funnel money into their own pockets { Clinton Foundation} .But if think America can care for every sick person on the planet who can get here your asking for all of us to suffer including death.
We did best before welfare and that is a fact. Clinics, teaching hospitals, etc.
But if you think that any man should take food from his own and give to a mans who can work but doesn't your wrong.
Why would you who act like you hate christians want their help anyway? I've always gave to people.

 

I don't the government should provide for its citizens needs through taxes, and just the system needs to be more flexible and done better.

 

It is hard to argue either or when both sides have skin in the game. I am disabled and if you are an American tax payer then you are paying my way through life. If so, thank you! I mean it, I would be dead without the taxpayers paying my way and I owe the American tax payers a debt that I will likely never be able to repay. The skin that I have in the game is my ability to continue living, what skin do you have in the game... perhaps the following quote is a good example of the skin that you have in the game?

A good question with no easy answer from my POV. It is only human to place the welfare of ones child over the welfare of another who is a stranger to them and it is only natural for one who faces death to grab hold of any lifeline handed to them.

 

The benifits of a society must be shared within reasonable means.

 

In Jewish communities for the last 19 centuries at least, the community had to support their poor people. That is the Talmudic Law.

 

OT or NT = same god correct? So those principles should 'go away' if on follows Jesus and he demanded more sacrifice to the poor it seems. But we can look at other ways to help those in need when was the last time a Christian gave a homeless man maybe with issues like mental illness a full time job with good wages and benefits that is also charity according to the Jewish and Muslims giving a man who is need employment and its higher up on the chain of value to ones soul than just handing over money.

 

Agreed, on every point.

I believe living in excess while others starve or freeze is a mark of the immoral. I just dont think forcing people to be moral is a legitimate purpose of govt. Moral enforcement is the path to Theocracy.

"The government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government."
-- James Madison, speech in the House of Representatives, January 10, 1794

 

Greed? A Capitalist society that has become corrupt? Any society that has become corrupt.

 

"Take"? This is nonsense.

What are you talking about? You have no resources.

 

How is that relevant and what is your criteria for determining what a "best society" is?

 

That is not how it works. Yours is popular disinformation created by anti-Socialist/Democracy buffoons.

 

Talmud law also thinks all non jews are created to serve jews. And jews will dominate the world. And many jews don't go by that newborn biting off foreskin penis infecting law book.
The jewish history is one attacking of others after another. Read The Torah. Judah and Israel have never gotten along with each other much less anyone else because Judah thinks they are Chosen.

 

The "state" doesn't tax everyone. In fact, 45% of the US population pays zero federal taxes.

I guess that 45% doesn't deserve anything from anyone else then.

https://nypost.com/2016/02/24/45-percent-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-tax/

 

Please explain this 'you have no resources' nonsense

 

Its pretty obvious our society is better than a primitive stone-age society. If you disagree then go off and live in the Amazon somewhere. Technological and financial growth should be a key goal of society and stagnation should be avoided.

 

What about sales taxes which fund local, county and state government, taxes on wireless and other telecommunications options, fuel taxes, utility taxes in general, property taxes even renters have to pay rent partially going to those even if renting a room somewhere as other forms of taxation the poor and working people pay even if on government disability.

 

Sales tax? Sure. Not sure how much the poor are paying there. Whatever they're being taxed on is already taxpayer money in a lot of cases.

I don't know if they get taxed on their free cell phones and internet services that I don't think they're paying for either.

Are they paying taxes on their entitlements? I don't know.

 

Name one of your resources and we'll take it from there.

 

Better than a stone-age society? Probably, but if it's a stone-age society that you pit your country against then you don't have very much value on life or its people. You first said "best society". Why hell, society in North Korea is better than a primitive stone-age society. The US is way down the list of "best societies" ... and that is exactly what this OP is all about. Read it again.

 

Labor

 

So how do you figure that someone is TAKING your ability to perform work and GIVING it to someone else? Like I said ....... nonsense. But you can explain if you like.