Neutrality of Teachers

You think!

 

I was referring to a deist God, not so much as the God portrayed in the Bible or the Koran. While there are distinct similarities, there are also distinct differences. I don't know if the deist God is humane or cruel or amoral, but there is scientific evidence for its existence predominately on the basis for the only way to explain (so far) many things like evolution and the creation of the universe(s). You can answer the violations of the students that they might be correct -- nobody knows for certain -- but there is no scientific information that can yet back it up.

By the way teachers can be equally exposed to left wing crackpots as to right wing crackpots.

 

Well I think that depends on the local economy and cost of living.

You aren’t going to see higher wages for better teachers without adding competition to the equation. Adding pay without it will not result in better teachers.

 

Of course teachers should teach politics neutrally. They have a captive audience, and it's fundamentally unethical for them to foist one side on the children without the other, and it's equally as unethical for them to endorse one candidate over the others. Personally, I don't even think teachers should have political bumper stickers on their cars. I say this as a former teacher, married to a teacher, with a brother who is a college professor, another who's a teacher, and my sister-in-law on wife's side is also a teacher.

 

Just depends. As a parent, I would have no problem taking a teacher to task if that teacher said to vote for Hillary instead of Trump to her senior high students. As a parent I would also have no problem taking a science teacher to task if they were teaching intelligent design as a valid model. So, I have no problem taking a teacher to task for teaching unethically, which you obviously have a problem with.

 

And that is her right.

 

In Florida, with a good economy, the schools are suffering from not adding pay. In even pretty good schools, teaching vacancies are occurring. Why? Teachers are getting lower stress jobs with comparable or better pay. Teacher benefits aren't great in Florida (health insurance is expensive and doesn't cover a whole lot), and with a loss of tenure (eliminated about ten years ago for teachers hired since that time), teachers aren't losing anything if they try another career. For the most part, if they were decent teachers, they will have no problem getting another teaching job.

 

Higher pay will lead to more qualified people applying. Think this through.

 

Nah. Not unless the higher pay is based on measurable increased performance. If there is never incentive to perform better you’ll just be paying more for the same results.

Let’s say there is one company in the world that’s allowed to manufacture coffee makers. You need a coffee maker. They are $65 at Wal Mart. You buy one. You don’t like it. So you send the company who manufactured it a check for $50 dollars and assume the new model they put out next year will be better. You buy a new model. It still sucks. You are confused as to why...

 

We need the same separation that exists with Church and state with politics and state.

 

But it's OK to go the opposite way with health care professionals? California has the highest paid teachers in the nation, yet we rank in the bottom 5 in education levels. Your way of thinking leads to California education levels. Pay should be based on teacher performance.

 

Yep. Create competition in primary education and all those problems go away.

 

I said to increase the starting salary, if that does not bring in competition, I don't know what you could do to add competition. A charter school paying 35,000 is going to get the teachers who could not get on a regular payroll.

And I dont care if you work in Mississippi, 35,000 a year is a joke.

 

Absolutely. Can confirm. I have a 14 year old. Her school is a political nightmare. 1984. After the Parkland shootings, for example, her middle school held organized activities promoting gun control, and students were required to participate. They didn't actually have the balls to call them "Gun Control" activities though, just activities "in support of the parkland students".

 

Isn’t a charter school just an equivalent to Henry Ford offering a charcoal grey model T instead of only black? I don’t see how charter schools solve anything.

Competition comes when there are multiple options available on a “level as possible” playing field. I think the only thing that would begin to move things in that direction would be a voucher system combined with pay based on performance in government schools.

Why is starting salary of $35,000 a joke? My first salaried position was $1000/month in 1997. And I had to work 12 months to get 12 months pay. Obviously I worked my way out of that quickly. The problem isn’t starting wages. It’s what pigeonholes everyone after that.

 

Yup, higher pay means better qualified people. That's what the bankers are saying for their obscene salaries for CEO's.

It is time the corporatists and their supporters are put out of government: good heavens.

 

you got paid $10 for a salaried position with a bachelor's? My first job just with an associates degree was 17.00 and that was a decade earlier.

if yo think you are going to get anyone to work on a pay for performance in a urban public school your nuts. 1/2 the parents don't care. I was the president of my oldest sons PTA in an elementary school of 330 students. There were 12 members in the PTA. They had open houses and except for kindergarten teachers were lucky if one or two parents came in. Notes were never brought back in from parents, Parents would not return calls from teachers.

Here in Mass we have the highest ranked public schools in the nation. We pay 50,000 K to start, require a master's within 5 years and each teacher has a mentor. Principals drop in on classes to verify that lesson plans are being done to standards and it takes 5 years before you get tenure. Your kids don't measure up to the other kids in other classes they can let you go. Kids are tested every year to monitor achievement.

Now I agree that paying a 6th grade elementary teacher the same as you do a teacher who teaches AP physics and Calculus AB and BC is wrong.

 

I would think that in general- teachers should leave politics off the table period. The only exceptions might be some classes that directly involve political history, but even then teaching students to take sides is inappropriate, just as distorting the facts to favor your own preference is inappropriate for the teaching environment.

 

Yet all are saying better pay makes for better talent acquisition. Can't have it both ways.

 

When you say that they have the highest paid, doe shat take into account as a percentage of avearge per capita income.

 

Yeh, I know. Actually I was working 60-70 hours a week so under $5/hr actually. I was moving quickly into self employment, the job was a stepping stone.

Certainly one of the biggest problems with education today. I completely agree. I’m not sure how forced education of people with no interest in it is a good allocation of resources. Solving that problem is going to take time and a lot more than setting more dollars on fire.

Sounds like most states should by mimicking Massachusetts. Studying lists of state performance, overall spending, and per capita spending shows it isn’t just the money that’s making the difference and you’ve shown that.

True. But I had a calculus teacher that wasn’t worth the $1000/month I started at.

It probably sounds like I’m a teacher basher. I’m not. I just think they need to perform if they want the big bucks. Circling back to the OP, if teachers are indoctrinating instead of encouraging thought and learning, they don’t deserve the pay. Just my opinion.

 

JakeStarkey said: ↑
Yet all are saying better pay makes for better talent acquisition. Can't have it both ways.

I said nothing of the sort.

 

If you are talking about higher education, my answer is no. College students need to think for themselves and think critically. The only way to accomplish that is not by teachers hiding their beliefs. But universities do need to have a healthy spectrum of ideologies to show students a confrontation of ideologies. And students should be encouraged (I always was in my college days) to challenge teachers. The best class I had was a History class in which the teacher often explained what he believed and defended it passionately. But homework was "Even if you agree with me, prove me wrong!" It was mandatory to find a good counter argument. The subsequent class was always very animated. I especially enjoyed when I didn't agree with the teacher. So I was always looking for holes. Very instructive.

I would even start this at a High School level.

Religion is a different matter. I'm an atheist too, and I never push my religious view on my two sons either. I do explain it to them, if they ask. My wife is Catholic, and they have all gone through the whole ritual: baptism, first communion, .... My oldest decided to become an atheist. My youngest seems to be veering more towards my wife's side. I don't mind because they have had everything to make up their own minds.

 

I don't think words can begin to describe how wrong you are. We practically have to invent a whole new vocabulary to describe the fantasy world your post inhabits. And I say this as someone with almost twenty-six years of teaching experience.

 

Sure thing.

Just look up Vista School District, Vista, California, as an example.

Of course they deny it.